Create new mailing list wine-isv?

[Peter Beutner]

Dmitry Timoshkov schrieb:
> "Peter Beutner" <p.beutner at gmx.net> wrote:
>>> Why? Wine is effectively just a different toolkit, like QT or GTK 
>>> (albeit much larger) that give applications a Windows, KDE and Gnome 
>>> look respectively. Take Notepad for example - with some slight 
>>> modifications you could even modify the File Open dialog to only show 
>>> the Unix namespace. Is there any reason that this application can't 
>>> be a fully fledged part of the desktop?
>>
>>
>> Wine is _not_ just a different toolkit. Just look at all the "nasty" 
>> stuff wine has to do to emulate the windows process environment. This 
>> is not exactly what I would prefer as an ideal environment when I had 
>> to develop an application.
> 
> Since Wine is not a trivial thing written in 3 lines of code and it has 
> huge compatibility requirements it must to do all kinds of things to make you 
> (a developer) not to do that kind of things in your own code. Think about that.
hm if you somehow manage to build your project in a platform independent way so that you 
can build a native windows executable as well as a native linux one, then you don't need 
the whole compatibility code at all ;)

> Said that, nothing makes it a different from another toolkit, no matter
> what Wine haters think about it.
hmm you don't mean this for real, don't you?

>>> Sure. While you're at it give them some docs about globalization 
>>> practices and efficient CPU usage. These are all nice to have things, 
>>> but you have to face it that if you're a developer at a software 
>>> company with a deadline then these are the first things to be 
>>> ignored. You also have to bear in mind that it is incredibly 
>>> difficult to do platform idependent GUI programming, whilst still 
>>> maintaining the Windows look.
>>
>> Nobody said it's easy or that it will happen over night. But it 
>> can/should be the long term goal. Besides gtk+/qt are imho quite 
>> mature to use as cross-plattform gui toolkits.
> 
> I don't understand why you can't include Wine in that list. Is that an 
> ignorance or a result of hate to all which goes from windows world?
No, it's because I think wine is not a just a gui toolkit.

>>> It is the cheapest way for companies and it gives good results for 
>>> the users. What's wrong with that?
>>
>> See above. Wine does a lot of "tricks" to emulate windows behaviour. 
>> And the more you use some complex window api the more is the chance 
>> that wine just can't implement it the way it works in windows but has 
>> to use all sorts of workarounds to get it to work under linux.
> 
> Sounds like a popular Wine myth. Anyone who ever seen a working MS 
> Office 97/2000/XP/2003 or any other not trivial application working under Wine wouldn't tell 
> anything like that,especially if he is a knowledgeable developer and not another member ./ 
> crowd.
Haven't said that it doesn't work.
I just said sometimes you can't easily map stuff 1:1 from the windows world to linux.
Just look at the things like the memory layout, parts of the gdi stuff, the whole ntoskrnl 
idea, ...

>>> Wine is a very good way of testing the waters with a Linux market. If 
>>> a significant part of the market share starts coming from Linux or 
>>> other Unix operating systems then the company can start offering 
>>> winelib extensions that integrate better with the environment in 
>>> which they are running.
>>
>> I doubt that this will happen. If the windows version works with wine 
>> the company will more likely continue to work on that. See your money 
>> argument.
> 
> Another myth about Wine.
Glad to hear that. So there are already companies shipping winelib extensions for their 
products?