Set up wine-macosx? (Re: How are we doing?)

[Jim White]

Mike Hearn wrote:

>  * Are we turning away potential developers for any reason? Could we do
>    more to attract new hackers?

Yes.  The attitude on wine-devel could be appreciative of the progress
that Darwine has made and the hard work its developers rather than
disdain.  That way developers working on Wine for Mac OS X might be more
inclined to focus their activity on Wine for Intel Mac OS X here.

I only speak for myself, so I don't know whether the developers feel
that way.  But I do know I set up Darwine because of the antagonistic
and dismissive tone here when I tried to discuss Darwin & Mac OS X
development ideas.

In fact we just happened to be discussing this very topic the day I
found out about the SF CCA (Ken Thomases patch meant I had to attend to
a bit of admin):

> Jim White wrote:
>> Alexandre Julliard wrote:
>> 
>>>Jim White <jim at pagesmiths.com> writes:
>>>
>>>>It was trying to discuss things like PPC emulation and Quartz display on
>>>>wine-devel that led to the creation of the Darwine list.  Obviously
>>>>wine-devel has plenty of traffic on it already, and certainly doesn't
>>>>need to deal with topics that are not cross-platform.  And while Darwine
>>>>is not a fork, we certainly have concerns that are not identical with
>>>>Wine's.
>>>
>>>I don't see why that would be the case, good MacOS support is
>>>certainly one of Wine's goals. I think you should really consider
>>>becoming real members of the Wine community instead of remaining in
>>>your own private community; otherwise the Mac port will always be a
>>>second-class citizen in the Wine world, and I don't think anybody
>>>wants that.
>> 
>> Mac OS X did not get the respect you describe from the Wine (or any
>> Windows community) B.I. (Before Intel).
>> 
>> Refer to the wine-devel archives for 2002 if you want gory details on
>> why Darwine was established.
>> 
>> And I repeat, Darwine is not and has never been a fork of Wine.  The
>> only code we maintain is stuff that either hasn't yet made it into
>> WineHQ CVS or never will.

Darwine is a "private community"?  "Second-class citizen in the Wine
world"?  Uh, yeah.  I'm really feeling the love here.

I posted last week that Darwine got first place in the SF CCA awards, an
event that involved the casting of more than 250,000 votes.  A
surprising result considering Darwine doesn't support end users and
doesn't have anything for them to run.  But it happened, and like the
CCA contest rules said, the prize is getting to feel proud and brag a
little.

Was there a single warm fuzzy from anyone on this list?  No.
Fortunately we get them from Macfolk on a regular basis.

Did it get mentioned in Wine Weekly?  Nope.  And we know it got out
before the deadline since the Google Picassa posting on the next day got
plenty of ink.

Oh, wait.  The award *did* get mentioned in Wine Weekly issue #311.
Hmmm, except that not only is Darwine not in the subject line, it isn't
 mentioned at all.  There is some whining that Wine didn't win though.
Thanks guys.

http://www.winehq.org/?issue=311#SourceForge%20Community%20Choice%20Awards

The reason that Darwine won the award is because a *lot* of people want
to run Windows applications on Mac OS X.  In fact you're lucky most of
them have PowerPC Macs.  Otherwise WineHQ would get overwhelmed by the
horde when something ships.

Lest you think I'm complaining here, I'm not.  As Alexandre said, no one
wants the Mac port to be anything other than first class.  Darwine
exists because wine-devel is uninviting to Mac OS X developers.  I'm
suggesting that more honey and less vinegar is in order.

I think WineHQ should set up a wine-macosx list.  It worked for me.

Jim White