WWN: wn20031010_191.xml

Thu Oct 9 22:31:56 CDT 2003

wn20031010_191.xml

-brian
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<kc>

<title>Wine Traffic</title>

<author contact="http://www.theshell.com/~vinn">Brian Vincent</author>
<issue num="191" date="10/10/2003" />
<intro> This is the 191st issue of the Wine Weekly News publication.
Its main goal is to go see balloons in Albuquerque. It also serves to inform you of what's going on around Wine. Wine is an open source implementation of the Windows API on top of X and Unix. Think of it as a Windows compatibility layer. Wine does not require Microsoft Windows, as it is a completely alternative implementation consisting of 100% Microsoft-free code, but it can optionally use native system DLLs if they are available. You can find more info at <a href="http://www.winehq.com">www.winehq.com</a> </intro>
<stats posts="189" size="834" contrib="57" multiples="35" lastweek="33">

<person posts="23" size="55" who="Alexandre Julliard" />
<person posts="28" size="70" who="Dimitrie O. Paun" />
<person posts="8" size="37" who="Steven Edwards" />
<person posts="7" size="19" who="Jukka Heinonen" />
<person posts="6" size="20" who="Pavel Roskin" />
<person posts="6" size="15" who="Jerry Jenkins" />
<person posts="6" size="13" who="Warren Baird" />
<person posts="6" size="11" who="Ivan Leo Murray-Smith" />
<person posts="5" size="35" who="Andr\&#233; Johansen" />
<person posts="5" size="14" who="Kevin Koltzau" />
<person posts="5" size="13" who="Dmitry Timoshkov" />
<person posts="5" size="11" who="Jon Griffiths" />
<person posts="4" size="16" who="Robert Reif" />
<person posts="4" size="14" who="Sylvain Petreolle" />
<person posts="4" size="13" who="Shachar Shemesh" />
<person posts="4" size="8" who="Jeremy White" />
<person posts="3" size="23" who="(Dave_Belanger)" />
<person posts="3" size="10" who="Martin Fuchs" />
<person posts="3" size="7" who="Troy Rollo" />
<person posts="3" size="6" who="Eric Pouech" />
<person posts="3" size="6" who="Oleg Prokhorov" />
<person posts="2" size="92" who="Subhobroto Sinha" />
<person posts="2" size="43" who="Vincent B&#233;ron" />
<person posts="2" size="42" who="Mike McCormack" />
<person posts="2" size="13" who="Juraj Hercek" />
<person posts="2" size="9" who="Geoff Thorpe" />
<person posts="2" size="5" who="Bill Medland" />
<person posts="2" size="5" who="Martin Fuchs" />
<person posts="2" size="5" who="PETREOLLE Sylvain" />
<person posts="2" size="5" who="Andreas Mohr" />
<person posts="2" size="5" who="Marcel Partap" />
<person posts="2" size="4" who="Hannu Valtonen" />
<person posts="2" size="4" who="Gerald Pfeifer" />
<person posts="2" size="3" who="(dwillis)" />
<person posts="1" size="48" who="Roderick Colenbrander" />
<person posts="1" size="41" who="John Levon" />
<person posts="1" size="13" who="John Conneely" />
<person posts="1" size="8" who="Tom Hibbert" />
<person posts="1" size="5" who="Huw D M Davies" />
<person posts="1" size="4" who="Patrik Stridvall" />
<person posts="1" size="4" who="Boaz Harrosh" />
<person posts="1" size="3" who="Gaul, Ken" />
<person posts="1" size="3" who="Robert van Herk" />
<person posts="1" size="3" who="Kevin Groeneveld" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Tom" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Daniel Marmier" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Uwe Bonnes" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Marcus Meissner" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Gregory M. Turner" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Maxime Bellenge" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Jerry Jenkins" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Lionel Ulmer" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Rein Klazes" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Moreno" />
<person posts="1" size="1" who="Francois Gouget" />

</stats>
<section 
	title="News: New Interview, Errata, Wine Review"
	subject="News"
	archive="http://www.winehq.com/?interview=12"
	posts="2"
	startdate="10/04/2003"
	enddate="10/10/2003"
>
<topic>News</topic>
<p>Last week I put together an interview with Peter Hunnisett of TransGaming.
It didn't get uploaded to the web site in time for last week's issue though.
I removed the paragraph the news section before publishing it but failed to
remove the headline announcing it.  No one seemed to notice.. but this week
you really can find the <a href="http://www.winehq.com/?interview=12">
interview with Peter</a> on WineHQ.  Interviews have slowed down quite a
bit - real life is getting in the way.  I promise there will be more, however
infrequent they may be.</p>

Ivan Leo Murray-Smith pointed out that I not only misattributed an
email to him but a bunch of work that was done to get Wine programs running
on Windows. For the record, Pavel Roskin worked on that project. Ivan
was responsible for compiling and uploading them to the Sourceforge 
repository.

Scott Lowe wrote an article for ZDNet UK about downloading and
installing Wine. 
<a href="http://insight.zdnet.co.uk/business/0,39020481,39116972,00.htm">He 
ran into some problems</a> and gives a thumbs down for usability. He
does recommend CodeWeaver's CrossOver Office as an alternative to the 
free version.

</section>
<section
        title="Theming &amp; UXTheme.DLL"
        subject="uxtheme.dll"
        archive="http://www.winehq.com/hypermail/wine-devel/2003/09/1056.html"
        posts="30"
        startdate="09/29/2003"
        enddate="10/08/2003"
>
<topic>Integration</topic>
<p>
Kevin Koltzau started a thread last week about integrating Windows' 
theming in Wine:</p>
<quote who="Kevin Koltzau"><p>
I started work porting a windows app using winelib, and hit an issue relating 
to the fact that there is currently no implementation of uxtheme.dll (and 
more importantly, no headers, of which would be enough to compile the app as 
it dynamically loads all the uxtheme dlls as needed, and falls back 
gracefully)
</p><p>
Because of this, I've been thinking about beginning an implementation of 
uxtheme.dll. I am curious if someone has already taken up this task, or if 
anyone any opinions on this topic.
</p></quote>

Sylvain Petreolle questioned the usefulness,
<quote who="Sylvain Petreolle">
This isn't a windows system dll. Isnt that another attempt like
cards.dll ?</quote> Mike Hearn thought it would be a welcome addition:
<quote who="Mike Hearn">
Sure it is. Apps attempt to LoadLibrary it if they detect it to enhance
their drawing capabilities. It's conceivable that one day apps will not
have this backwards compat code and simply require Windows XP or above,
so it needs to get done.

It's also the Right Way to make Wine not look like ass on our pretty
desktops, because the win32 apps will be theme aware.
</quote>

Roderick Colenbrander pointed out that this was a non-trivial amount
of work:
<quote who="Roderick Colenbrander">
I hope you know what you will begin with. (For the ones that don't know
uxtheme.dll is the dll that takes care of all theming on WinXP and it is the dll
that dlls like comctl32 and all others use for theming) 

Some time ago I checked out uxtheme.dll a bit and it seems that it needs
changes all over Wine. As I understand it WinXP ships with two sets of
comctl32.dll and friends. One is the "old" version and one is a new uxtheme aware
version. The uxtheme aware version contains lots of changes and uses uxtheme for
theming. To use uxtheme you need to add uxtheme support to the dlls that need
it which looks like a huge job. Perhaps this is something post Wine-1.0?</quote>

Dimi wondered why two DLL's were needed and Roderick explained:
<quote who="Roderick Colenbrander">
The "old" dll that MS ships with WindowsXP is comctl32.dll version 5.x which 
is the same as on other Windows versions.

Version 6 is the new version. One of the biggest changes is that this updated 
dll handles both the user and common controls. Further all controls now 
include some area in which can be drawn for theming.

For more info check out: 
<a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwxp/html/xptheming.asp">
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwxp/html/xptheming.asp</a>
</quote>

<p>James Gregory jumped in to mention some similar work he'd
done:</p>
<quote who="James Gregory"><p>
Some time ago I started hacking in support for GTK themes. When I first
suggested this project to the list there was suggestions that doing it
with uxtheme.dll was the way to go. I agreed, but didn't have winxp to
play with, so I kept tinkering on this project with the intent of
learning a bit more about how wine works (which meant learning a lot
about how GDI and X works, though I didn't realise that I'd need to know
that stuff when I started on the project). I actually managed to get
some results which were starting to look promising (though there's no
way I'd submit that code as a patch). Screenshots here (the checkbox
being the only important part):
<ul>        
    <li>    <a href="http://james.id.au/wine/wine-ss1.png">

	http://james.id.au/wine/wine-ss1.png</a></li>
    <li>    <a href="http://james.id.au/wine/wine-ss2.png">

	http://james.id.au/wine/wine-ss2.png</a></li>
    <li>    <a href="http://james.id.au/wine/wine-ss3.png">

	http://james.id.au/wine/wine-ss3.png</a></li></ul>
</p><p>        
Anyway, the reason I'm posting is not to suggest that this code be used
(nor the approach I took), but to mention that if theming code is to be
written that I think it's really important to have a way to pass off
rendering of controls etc to a .so that can be dlopened and called with
dlsym. IIRC the existing system uses a function lookup table, so there
shouldn't be much that needs to change for this to occur -- only the
initialisation of this function table and probably some hooks so that
these .sos can detect whether or not they'll work with the current
configuration (as an example the way I was doing gtk theming won't work
with anything that isn't x11drv. I don't like breaking encapsulation
like this, but it sounds like it's practical in this case). I don't know
if I can be of any help, but I'm interested in trying -- please keep me
posted.</p></quote>

Kevin then detailed an area he was looking into:
<quote who="Kevin Koltzau">
I'm currently working on implementing support for .msstyles themes (of which 
are used by XP) primarily because the format follows the API pretty closely 
and will be easier to test my implementation against an XP box.

One nice thing about .msstyles themes is they are basically just a 
resource-only DLL, which could of course include exported functions.

Going along that path, one possible way to integrate theme support from your 
native window manager is to extend the .msstyles theme format to enable using 
exported functions for drawing some controls, which could then make direct 
GTK/etc calls.

Another possible method would be to create a conversion tool to create 
an .msstyles theme from a GTK theme, or to simply create a totally new method 
of defining themes for WINE.
</quote>

Kevin went back and did some more work and posted another note
several days later wondering how to set up configuration options. At
that point Steven Edwards brought up a topic on a similar tangent,
<quote who="Steven Edwards">
Is there a way we can merge the winelook option in to the themeing
support? The work I have been doing to port comdlg32 is kind of stalled
because of tweak_winelook being incompleate in this dll. It would be
nice if we could plan on moving all of this stuff together post 1.0
</quote>

Kevin wasn't sure of that answer but went into more detail about 
how Windows' theming worked:
<quote who="Kevin Koltzau">
I'm not very familiar with how the winelook is handled in code, what does it 
do exactly? if it simply affects system metrics &amp; colors that would be easily 
merged with themes, if its more then that (like for example different common 
dialogs) it may be more difficult

Full blown theming in windows uses a combination of .theme files and .msstyles 
files.

.theme files I believe existed before XP and do not use uxtheme.dll. They 
primarilly just define system metrics and colors (along with icons for things 
like My Computer, etc and mouse cursors).

.msstyles files are the basis of uxtheme.dll, and allow much broader theming 
support as seen in WinXP, as well as defining system metrics &amp; colors (but do 
not define icons &amp; cursors).

The two theme formats are coupled very loosely, they can be used together 
(primarily to enable defining icons &amp; cursors with a graphical theme) or 
seperate. When used together, any metrics &amp; colors defined in the msstyles 
override those defined in the .theme

Alexandre has requested I use the registry keys that windows uses to define 
theme configuration, in which case under XP those keys are located in
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Themes
and
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ThemeManager

The configuration seems to be split between those two locations, with a couple 
options in both. HKCU primarily contains configuration related to XP's 
msstyles method of theming, HKLM looks to primarilly define theming 
with .theme files (although there is some slight crossover between the two).
</quote>

Other people felt it would be a good idea to roll the existing
look and feel options into something like this. So will we soon have
Wine integrating better with Windows and Linux desktops? Hopefully!

</section>
<section 
	title="WineWorks Utility" 
	subject="[ANNOUNCE]WineWorks - yet another utility to configure Wine!"
	archive="http://www.winehq.com/hypermail/wine-devel/2003/10/0140.html" 
	posts="3"
	startdate="10/04/2003"
>
<topic>Utilities</topic>
<p>A new utility appeared out of nowhere last week.
Subhobroto Sinha dropped a note about a Qt based
configuration tool:
</p><quote who="Subhobroto Sinha"><p>
well this is NOT yet another effort to imitate
WineCfg!
</p><p>
WineCfg needs Wine to be running to work. WineWorks
does NOT need Wine to be running.
WineWorks has been developed using Qt 3.1.1
</p><p>
WineWorks has been written keeping it in mind as MORE
of a troubleshooting tool rather than a customization
and configuring tool. That is something WineCfg is
there for.
I intend to make WineWorks as a tool which can HELP a
user figure out potential problems which can hinder
running Wine on his machine and to resolve those
issues so that Wine may be up and going... all from a
easy to use GUI.
</p><p>
Please try out the program and send reports back to
&lt;subhobrotosinha at yahoo dot com&gt; with [WINEWORKS] in
the subject line and an optional line appended to it
if required.
I will soon put the details up on my site as soon as I
get a few reports in my mail box.
</p><p>
The program is attached compressed as 'WineWorks.zip'
and has MD5 Sum '145a82af87efa62c8a694c5a1c18a0a5'.
</p><p>
NOTE: It's recommended that you run WineWorks from a
shell window to see the trace/debug messages. That way
you can see what it's doing behind the scenes and
where it went wrong (if it did)..
</p></quote>

<p>I tried it out real quick and it seems to pull off some
nice features.  The interface is a little rough around the
edges, but usable.  Roderick Colenbrander noticed it also
and included a screenshot showing 
<a href="http://www.winehq.com/hypermail/wine-devel/2003/10/att-0146/01-shot.png">WineWorks
in action</a>.
</p>
</section>
<section 
	title="The Start Menu" 
	subject="Of Start Menu, Shortcuts and broken functions..."
	archive="http://www.winehq.com/hypermail/wine-devel/2003/10/0136.html" 
	posts="3"
	startdate="10/04/2003"
>
<topic>Integration</topic>
<p>Subhobroto posted another email wondering about 
Windows' infamous "Start" menu.  His application has
an initial implementation of it.  He dropped a note
with a lot of details about what he was trying to do
but needed help making it work:</p>
<quote who="Subhobroto Sinha"><p>
Recently there has been a revived interest in putting
up a 'Windows' like 'Start Menu' onto the Window
managers. That's good.Thanks.
</p><p>
But as I see it, this task is REALLY easy.
Once we resolve the Windows shorcut files,figuring out
how to implement the resolved menu entries for
respective Desktop environments is dependent on the
Desktop environment themselves, and people wanting to
implement the 'Start Menu' on that environment.
Windows maintains it's 'Start Menu' under
'%ROOTDIR%\Documents and Settings\%USER%\Start Menu'
(yeah I am talking >=NT,Win2k. For 9x, it will be
probably 'C:\WINDOWS\Start Menu'), and this folder
contains LOADS of shortcut (.lnk) files.
So if we can just recurse through this folder and read
out the .lnk files into compatible menu/desktop
entries of the corresponding Desktop environment
(KDE,GNOME...), we have a working, synchronized 'Start
Menu'.
</p><p>
And that's JUST what McCormack's 'winemenubuilder'
does, and reading out the code I can see it's THE
thing we need.
</p><p>
Unfortunately, 'winemenubuilder' shipped from
Wine-20030618 - the VERY version from which
IPersistFile::Load() (the VERY function used to
resolve windows shortcuts) got broken, so I could not
see 'winemenubuilder' in practise!
(Mike, if you are reading this, could you tell me on
what Wine ver you originally developed it, and does
'winemenubuilder' work now ? Thanks)
</p><p>
You yourself may try out 'winemenubuilder', and if it
works let me know. I will know that I was at fault all
along,and that would be good news for me !
</p><p>
Now, there arises the problem. Microsoft really does
not tell us what's the data structure of .lnk files,
though if Alexandre (or somebody of his status..)
requested Matt Pietrek for that information, we can
probably get it.
</p></quote>

Mike McCormack quickly replied and noted some other
obstacles that need to be investigated:
<quote who="Mike McCormack">
Unfortunately, it's not just as simple as enumerating "C:\Windows\Start 
Menu", though that would be a good start.

To do things exactly the same way as Windows does them, we have to make 
a shell namespace that contains all the stuff on the start menu, then 
enumerate that. Furthermore, since the namespace is dynamic, the menu 
really should be constructed on the fly, not just written to an .desktop 
file.

I had a bit of discussion with Robert van Herk about this (see the 
thread about ""Start menu" (continued)" on this list). I mentioned to 
him that I thought the best way to solve the problem would be to write a 
gnome-vfs library and KDE plugin that query a wine process for the 
structure of the startmenu at runtime.

For starters we could just use the 'Start Menu' directory, but you miss 
out on things like Outlook Express and Internet Explorer's Icons, 
because there's no .lnk file for those... they are created by a shell 
namespace extension (I think :).

Anyway, it would be great if we figured out the remaining structure of 
.lnk files, and finished the IShellLink implementation properly, and no 
matter how things are done, we need that code to be complete. The best 
way to do that, IMO, is to examine alot of .lnk files from windows 
systems :)
</quote>

<p>Robert jumped in and described some work he's done:</p>
<quote who="Robert van Herk"><p>