we have 30 guys sitting here in the room waiting to start jer is appologizing for lack of streaming apparently jwhite just did "ifconfig eth0 down" on winehq.org accidently :/ <_Marcus_> he ifdowned the main wine server ;) jwhite is introducing wineconf --> huwathome (~daviesh@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --- huwathome is now known as huw now is 9:30am here ... we're going to finish up round 5pm --> ulrich (~ulrich@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf <[ericP]> any chance to get the streaming server up later on ? newman is working on it they are working on it server is completly down, we goofed alexandre takes the microphone --> shachar (~sun@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf ooo. we have a presentation from aj's laptop alexandre welcomes everybody he's talking about the last 2 years, wine 0.9 and a Q&A session anybody has any questions, put them on IRC and we'll yell them out Past 2 years: dll sep, wine lib, reactos collab, regression tests, direct x,3d,* i18ln idl, rpc support regression tests are useful! --> Ivan (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf new slide: last 2 years II --> q[acme] (~acme@kanga.astray.com) has joined #wineconf NPTL, Interprocess window management, code cleanups (strict mode, header files, portability), MS Office just works is streaming working already? some discussion of glibc just arrived .. Thunderbird: sorry, no ok * mike_m is the best streaming available atm Hi, is it just my connection or is winehq down? It's down. winehq is down apparently jwhite just did "ifconfig eth0 down" on winehq.org accidently :/ new slide: past 2 years (III) easy installation (wineboot winecfg regedit selfregistering dlls,) web site, documentation julliard complements laxdragon for the website ;) new slide: --> vizzini (vizzini@plasmic.com) has joined #wineconf lines of code in wine <_Marcus_> http://www.lst.de/~mm/wineconf.html <_Marcus_> for 2 pictures getting up to 1,200,000 loc Thnx marcus :-) new slide: New lines/year 2003 is best year on record almost 250,000 loc 2002: 150000 loc 2001: 100000 loc 2000: 120000 loc new slide <-- vizzini has quit (Client Quit) The Future:release 0.9 --> vizzini (vizzini@plasmic.com) has joined #wineconf --> jasfilb (~jasonf@ndn-ip-nas-1-p190.telkom-ipnet.co.za) has joined #wineconf Finish DLL seperation (remove internal functions from spec files: ntdll 5, kernel32: 17, gdi32:3, user32: 21) 20 internal headers, source tree layout Any idea of if/when winehq will be up, and when the live stream will be working? Merge new filesystem code( hi [ericP]( --> m-t (~gregasert@z73.211-132-157.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp) has joined #wineconf finish interprocess window management getting eth0 up shouldn't be much work ... Ivan: working on it --> w3seek (w3seek@pD95434DE.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #wineconf Thunderbird: it's in a colo.. <[ericP]> still around, waiting for the stream to come up :-( Thunderbird, yes, except that it's a colo server Thunderbird, it's in a colo 5 miles away [ericP], we'll see if we can put the next presentation onto a website first ahh so someone is driving to the server now? [ericP], julliard intends to merge you patch in a few weeks <[ericP]> mike_m: that would be great (with your comments) expects a bit of chaos for users [ericP], i had a look at it... looks good! <[ericP]> mike_m: I do 2 new slide: Easy installation: (Finish winecfg, move config to reg, initial registry setup) Command line handling winelib (use winegcc to build wine) OLE/COM what did he mean by command line handling - In what way? wants to get rid of all flags so they don't interfere with apps (apps flags) <_Marcus_> 2 more images <_Marcus_> and a low battery sing To remove almost all Wine-specific command line options. --debugmsg will go <[ericP]> debugmsg is already gone --- jasfilb is now known as jasfilb_brb <[ericP]> btw, I have ROS taskmgr ready for wine integration (and debug channel management included !!) [ericP], i missed that :) [ericP], cool! <_Marcus_> cool Alexandre asks for questions. Marcus raises the '0.9 THIS year' question :-) is 0.9 this year? yes... but we've been saying that for years <[ericP]> In fact, waiting for Steven Edwards to commit first to ROS some last changes (and GPL references), it should be ready RSN <_Marcus_> alexandre ist positive... ;) Boaz asks: "what is the problem in wine that prevents us from using wine in gnome apps, etc" julliard: you need to initialize a windows environment for wine Boaz: why can't we load midstream? julliard: can be possible, but somewhat difficult mplayer rips code from wine because we can't load wine dynamically? julliard: doesn't make sense to use wine for that soon it will be problematic with hybrid .net apps .. Thunderbird, yes, there was some talk of mono/windows forms mono uses a hacked winelib that can't load windows dlls ... if they could link directly with wine then no problem and wine won't have to think about .net .. yes... it would be nice marcus proposes a "winelite" <_Marcus_> i didnt ;) the guy on the floor wants one ;) <[ericP]> wine-lite or win-elite ? (that's boaz on the floor) _Marcus_, maybe proposes was the wrong word _Marcus_ suggests what Boaz wants is a "winelite" ... or build two types of wine libraries .. _Marcus_ notes that mplayer has only specifc requirements Jan is talking about captive fs proposes a similar idea for wine [ericP], it was "wine - lite" ah the captive guy is there too .. yes perhaps he wants his .sys loading code into wine .. (would help secdrv.sys / safedisc a little) <_Marcus_> it is possible. Thunderbird, yeah, it would be nice to have that capabiltity <_Marcus_> i started working on it, but failed on alexanres specific requirements for now * BBrox speaks about copy protection in his 'talk' :-) _Marcus_, did you get it working at all? ericP: did you say debugmsg is gone? <[ericP]> from command line, not from env variables It still works from command line for me... _Marcus_ says the main goal should be to focus on 0.9 I've just updated and rebuilt CVS and it's still there. * mike_m agrees with _Marcus_ jwhite asks julliard if he needs help maintainer will gav speak about wineserver ? if debugmsg goes, that will break bug_report.pl yes, i think so, but don't think he's here yet Thunderbird, he comes tomorrow You have an env. variable to replace debugmsg (which is needed when debugging stuff before command line parsing) <[ericP]> ivan: yes it's still there (but I stopped using it, for some other reasons, and then got used to it :-( gav is showing up tomorrow i think. <_Marcus_> i thought later today .... <[ericP]> BBrox: it's already there WINEOPTIONS (it's used anyway in process creation to pass options around IIRC) many people complement alexandre on maintaining wine well jwhite mentions a ticket system for patches s/complement/complaint/ ? :-) more complements than complains so far... but maybe we're just warming up ;) Ticket system? well, a web interface that tracks patches <[ericP]> any talk about moving from cvs to subversion ? [ericP], sort of mike_m: should you or me ask? alexandre mentioned cvs is a bit crappy sky_, go for it would subversion handle things like whitespace changes, etc? I don't know anything about it... <[ericP]> and subversion is readying for 1.0 svk on top of svn would [ericP], moving to subversion would be good <[ericP]> vizzini : it would handle file moving in tree, complete changeset control ; a gap between cvs and bitkeeper (but won't have the distributed trees scheme of BK) <[ericP]> also subversion relies on webdav for storage, so you have all the web iface for free eric: svk does that what about Arch? arch sucks why? [ericP], julliard wants to switch "when there is a better source tracking system" is hessitant about "the pain of switching" <_Marcus_> i dont think the source control system is really important he is not sure about subversion <_Marcus_> he likes arch more , but it is not ready yet julliard like arch better than subversion julliard says cvs is standard and has good tools some discussion of cvs/branching suckage I mean, since cvs is only one writer, people could set up arch or subversion mirrors without a problem sedwards says reactos will need branches all programming discussions eventually turn to version control ;-) some discussion of crossover & winehq development looks like it's break time for 15mins there's an ISP tech running over to the colo server... --> GvG (GvG@geldorp.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf winehq will be online when somebody runs over there and does an "ifconfig up eth0" on it... :) ok... break for 15mins starts now can someone run there now? --> fgouget (~fgouget@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> cmorgan (~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-245-76.ma.charter.com) has joined #wineconf <[ericP]> is there a way to put the next presentation on a web server somewhere? was thinking about asking that too .. If it's not big I have some web space --> RShearman (~RShearman@cpc1-warw1-6-0-cust105.brhm.cable.ntl.com) has joined #wineconf <[ericP]> RShearman: Hi Robert. Did you have time to look at the winedbg issue ? Yes I can't find anything else in the r_debug structure that contains the needed info I tried having a look through the gdb source code to find out what they do, but it is a complicated mess So I'm back to square one <[ericP]> last time I looked, AFAICS, they were doing a single loop browsing the r_debug linked list Maybe they get the info from elsewhere in the elf file? --> techsoup (~techsoup@AMarseille-201-1-1-201.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #wineconf <[ericP]> I doesn't seem there's other ways (at least I could find docu about :-/) Do you have the same problem on your system? <[ericP]> RShearman: it works fine here (I get all linked .so libs, including libc, libwine...) --> RCampbell (Koolio@pcp04708733pcs.flshng01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #wineconf If you want, I can send you my wine-pthread file to play about with <[ericP]> not sure it would be really helpfull (as I don't have all your libs, and we don't have the same ld.so) <[ericP]> what I'd rather do is 1/ send all the winedbg modifications I have in my tree, 2/ send you a patch for winedbg so I can get what I'm looking for (and a grasp of what I'm not expecting ;-) I have a patch in my tree at the moment which will dump out the whole r_debug structure <[ericP]> ok, then send me the patch and the trace (that's where I'd start with anyway) <-- techsoup (~techsoup@AMarseille-201-1-1-201.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #wineconf ("Multiplicome por cero") <-- mstefani has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) --> mstefani (~mstefani@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf <[ericP]> mike_m: ain't the break over? Waiting for some tapes for the video camera. And, hopefully, for WineHQ to be up again :-) <[ericP]> great... winehq is back Yeah, Jeremy Newman got the colo to ifup <[ericP]> the test stream is back too, not the real one... YET mike_m: Thanks for relaying Alexanders talk btw The camera is not on yet (waiting for the guys to come back with the tapes) JasonEdm: And _marcus_ for the pictures. <[ericP]> you need tapes to stream ? BTW can I see the stream if I have a firewall filtering all incoming stuff? <[ericP]> yup: thanks for the live report(s) Mike & Marcus <[ericP]> Ivan: yes, (with mplayer) look at the -rtsp-stream-over-tcp option definitely... Marcus - You'll have to post piccies of the people you missed (including yourself!) <_Marcus_> i should go around and take more <_Marcus_> i just have like 10 pictures left before battery failure No, but the camera has been shut down by the guys who went for the tapes. I took pictures too... But my cable to transfer to the PC is in my hotel room. Camera guys are back. <[ericP]> ooo BIG TIME Could you check the streams ? any word. <[ericP]> got them initiated, but still no window can someone test the stream? we should have the server back online same problem over here same here - receiving lots of data, but no window it looks like we're only sending audio; any reflection of that? As winehq was down, I'm now building qtwine, will take some time. I'm not hearing any sound Indeed. I get this QuickTime logo with some sort of left-and-right bouncing thingy below it and a deafaning silence. nope, me neither I'm using mplayer wer'e trying to get that to work right now (QuickTime player 6.5 on XP) still having technical problems... Of course, the test stream did that for me too, so I dunno... BTW do I need to change my firewall settings? I did read something about incoming udp on the wineconf list. the test stream worked well at the time .. (behind a firewall over here) I had to add codeweavers.com to my trusted domains, and all worked fine afterwards are you getting audio? BTW the test stream still works fine <[ericP]> mplayer: test stream is ok, regular stream doesn't work OK, Dimi starts to speak. sortof now and we are off. did u put the foils on a website? dimi's presentation is low tech, no slides. he is using the whiteboard. ah... ok :-) he is talking about wine 1.0 step 1: good and stable interfaces types of users... users, winelib users, developers regulard users interact via website, documentation ... --> ivanleo (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf configuration and the UI of the applications runing under wine idealy they never need the docs and configuration. basically they dont care about wine, the care about their app. now talking about winelib developers they care about file formats (spec files, registry, make files etc...) --> _JasonEdm_ (JasonE@the-edmeades.demon.co.uk) has joined #wineconf pretty good shape about those being in good shape. they also care about API and the build tools correction, wine tools. wine developers care about: source code and infrastructure --- mstefani is now known as puk looking at each of these places. 1) the web site it looks pretty good but still some areas need work. the history testing status internationalization various other status pages. 2) documentation not too bad but not complete. goal should be to remove incorrect information. what time is it at wineconf? winelib documentation is very broken. (current time is 11:24 AM) --- jasfilb_brb is now known as jasfilb development guide, good shape, but need to update COM (WIDL) also need to update multimedia docs What about API docs? not alot of work to do, but someone needs to do it. 3) Configuration need to complete regedit, very close nyef: getting there. complete wine config merge config file into the registery 4) UI guys is the conference going to be archived somewhere for download? handling the visible region. RCampbell: yes we are taping it and we will work to make it avalable. <_Marcus_> http://www.lst.de/~mm/wineconf.html ... some more pics speed of the UI is a worry the never ending task of the controls. _Marcus_: neat ;-) the goal is reachable. <[ericP]> laxdragon: Sending request: PLAY rtsp://wine.codeweavers.com/wineconf.sdp RTSP/1.0 <[ericP]> CSeq: 4 <_Marcus_> i did not get the names of some of the guys in the back <[ericP]> Session: 972229276216872682 <[ericP]> Range: npt=0- <[ericP]> User-Agent: MPlayer (LIVE.COM Streaming Media v2004.01.28) <[ericP]> Received PLAY response: RTSP/1.0 200 OK <[ericP]> Server: DSS/5.0 (Build/464; Platform/Linux; Release/5; ) <[ericP]> Cseq: 4 ok thanks <[ericP]> Session: 972229276216872682 <[ericP]> RTP-Info: url=trackid=1,url=trackid=2 <[ericP]> ==> Found audio stream: 0 <[ericP]> ==> Found video stream: 0 yeah the streaming is not working and we did not want to delay more Marcus, nice pics we will try again at the next break. " moving to the winelib users 1) file formats registry.. good not sure about the status of idl <-- Ivan has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) <-- ivanleo has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.4") Marcus, next to Parshall is andrew bogott _Marcus_ :DSCN2690.JPG - tom, jon parshall, andrew bogott --> tindalos (~tindalos@ool-18b80cbd.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #wineconf --> Ivan (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf <_Marcus_> thanks <_Marcus_> and the next 2 pics? nice to see the name appear. Marcus: At the right of the picture before you is Jan from Captive. <-- JasonEdm has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) lots of discussion about derived work and copying headers. result. dont do it. <_Marcus_> i dont think we should discuss legal stuff ;) *) tools --- _JasonEdm_ is now known as JasonEdm work to get more compatibility [i missed some doing lights] wine desktop widl not needed to be complete for 1.0 as long as it does not deviate from the standards Do we need to have DCOM95/DCOM98 replaced before 1.0? <_Marcus_> the general consensus is that it is not a crit5ical point needs to be done but not blocking 0.9 BTW do you know that we've broken the sourceforge rules? sourceforge rules? why is that? Because we host dcom95 there, and we haven't released the source ahh shhhh ;-) <_Marcus_> rwell dont tell anyone is the wine server protocol ever going to be stable? we can't come up with the source can we? ;-) Well, ScummVM is also hosting the CD image for BASS and they do not release the source of the original game :-) aleaxandre: Yes, it should be backward compatible how can I build wine without freetype, is there a configure option? I want to build qtwine to see the stream, but gcc says that gdi/freetype.c is full of syntax errors i'm not sure if you can build without freetype You can. OK, I'll uninstall the freetype headers if there isn't a configure option. <_Marcus_> there is no option, no. you'll have to remove the freetype include files or hack include/config.h to undef HAVE_FREETYPE Discussion about packaging :-) I want to build this thing before the stream starts, I've uninstalled the freetype headers. Can someone tell us whats being said? The idea is to have a separate tool to create the default configuration. Ie some wineinstall on steroids. sorry, i got distracted. --> bon (~bon@p50816643.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #wineconf --- bon is now known as bobesch <_Marcus_> i dont really know what the problem is here. alexandre suggested using dll register to create the registry entries that not so anymore? ;-) Well, I think that 'winedefault' would run the .INF stuff that registers all DLLs. Greatings from darmstadt to St. Paul winedefault being a binary or a script? hey bob <_Marcus_> hi uwe :) doh wrong person ;-) hah i fear i have lost track of the current converstation... <_Marcus_> aricstewart: me too. would we do things like create a default config and a fake windows drive and setup dll links on startup if no config was found? <_Marcus_> aricstewart: some kind of globally shared setup has someone sucesfully built qtwine? I get loads of messages about syntax errors in gdi/freetype.c as long as you guys can nail down what we should do for default configs. thats one thing i'd like to get implemented in the very near future will standard wine-20030911 play the stream? --- jasfilb is now known as jasfilb_away a lot of time here in the channel is spent with default config issues of one sort or another ;-) ok moving on to the next topic. looking at the source: moving some files, /controls /misc etc... * mike_m has been away talking with juan and Chris Hertel from Samba team neat --- bobesch is now known as UweB [ericP], dimi noted your work on ntdll again got distracted. " things are looking good in the source work --> muli (~muli@alhambra.mulix.org) has joined #wineconf dimi asks if he missed anything.. alexandre reminds him of infarstructure work Eric: Any word from Alexandre about integration of your new file handling in NTDLL? UweB: next few weeks. can someone tell me if current cvs will play the stream? (was part of the keynote) Ivan: No stream yet available... we will work on the stream during lunch. UweB, alexandre intends to integrate it within a few weeks Any pictures of wineconf and participants available on the net? I know, but qtwine won't build, even if winehq.com/wineconf says that it works <_Marcus_> //www.lst.de/~mm/wineconf.html <_Marcus_> http://www.lst.de/~mm/wineconf.html <-- w3seek has quit () f00d :-) talk internationalization.... but now food! <_Marcus_> w2ho cares about i18n ;) --> ace_ (~ace@15.ppp141.rsd.worldonline.se) has joined #wineconf I do breaking for lunch How many people are at wineconf? I've tried opening the test stream, from quicktime using wine-cvs abd I get a 404 error try the vido again. i think we just got it going. yes it appears so great! heh we are thinking of replaying alexandre's keynote while we are at lunch. I get live stream, and then "waiting for video", but after buffering I get "switching transport" and nothing happens Did you see me wave ? yes hi lionel Cool :-) its like a postage stamp on my screen ;-) not sure if sound is working but no sound .. Should I open something in the firewall? no sound Ivan: mplayer worked well for me and the framerate isn't that great .. restarted the broadcast to try to get sound. yes sound now ha ok we are going to play alexandre's talk while we eat But I don't want to build mplayer, I'm not confident I'll get it working beofre the conf starts again aricstewart: thanks Ivan: what distro do you run? and then start live after lunch. I have mdk ahh The rpms that come with mdk don't have rtsp support was going to say there are packages for debian can I get some rpms with rtsp somewhere? i personally had to rebuild mplayer from source based on the instrctions from live.com or you can ask someone for a mplayer binary .. as mplayer is one big beast .. newman says that he used the rpm from atrpm but they did not work for me. where is atrpm? we're replaying julliard's talk; do folks see it? I managed to update my mplayer with the LIVE.COM stuff, but now it complains about not finding codecs or something. :-/ <-- ace_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) who was that then? i saw something from an aircraft i think yeah, that's boaz's stuff, right before julliard's talk Well, I've closed the firewall and I now just get connecting... anyone got sound? no stream now heard a little bit of sound .. Can you put the test stream up? i've got video back in 15 mins What are you using? hmm... Can't you provide a http stream? can't start playback now... oh well Can you please put a http stream up? its probably just too much to do now, they are busy with other things ;-) winehq seems to be down again I've got okish video but no audio. Running qt6.3 on winxp hmm JasonEdm: Have you got it working on linux in any way? maybe too much traffic to allow connections. my stream got cut off and can't seem to reconnect no, my linux box doesnt have internet access at the moment due to a hardware failure :-( winehq seems to be down. JasonEdm: My windows box is down for the same reason :( BTW can someone confirm if winehq is down? works here here too <-- Ivan has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.4") nope, no matter what I do I can get video but no sound...! oh well, off for some food too - back later --> Vitaliy (~chatzilla@65.100.132.149) has joined #wineconf Ivan: winehq is up, afaict people watching the stream? mplayer is jsut sitting at "starting playback" it appears to have connected but can't start now for some reason I still have problmes, either with mplayer, which I set up today, or with the stream I had just a couple of frames QT 6.5 here just sits there with a logo image... test stream doesn't work either cmorgan: same thing here. Same status here. UweB: i thought i'd see you on here ;-) Much daytime work ok try again test still isn't working stream is now <[ericP]> got streaming (AJ speaking, but sound is awful) yeah we think that it is cutting out the background noise and AJ voice also. --> ajptx (~ajp@cs6669206-220.austin.rr.com) has joined #wineconf we improved the audio later in the recording. maybe just fast foward to then? ;-) No I get pictures i've got audio and piccies now :-) Sound's still pretty awful. yes, audio and pictures but its nearly impossible to follow all of what is doing on ;-) * nyef gives up. He's had no sign of a working stream (even the test stream) all day. nyef: the stream now works for me any of you had this error 11001 or server not found? nope ajptx: did the test stream work? I get that same message with both cmorgan: I get a QT logo from the QT player on windows, I get codec not found and signal 11 messages from mplayer. Either way, not encouraging. aricstewart: how long into the recording was the audio fix? ;-) with QT, what is the correct thing to put for the streaming settings? i am not sure, i was watching him fidget with the cables and plugin and unplugging. later half i think. ahh alright ;-) --> Tom-W (~Tom@207.144.244.11) has joined #wineconf hard to follow it all .. can get the jist though * nyef just managed to crash the quicktime player. lets try it on windows .. <-- Thunderbird has quit ("Client exiting") anyone got the stream working on windows with quicktime 6.5? oh, i may have a trick.. i seem to remember whnen i was testing under windows last week i had to select something in the right click menu, something like play stream to get it to start properly. --> Thunderbird (~Roderick@sailsup.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf there is no right click menu in quicktime sorry, been and come back. Now when I try to play it, I get nothing and it keeps pausing i reconnected and it works well for me now sound is odd but that apparently was fixed later on, like right now actually can't get any data .. and I'm on windows .. using qt 6.4 cmorgan, sound's still fucked up for me. its better now for me still messed up but can actually hear him now ;-) got it, just as he said I think thats it... <-- Vitaliy has quit (Remote closed the connection) 11001: server not found -- I've never seen it say anything else yeah i think this is about when we started pluging his wireless mic directly into the camera :) is anyone still receiving data? Thunderbird, I am. --> Wierd (wierd@ip68-102-245-12.ks.ok.cox.net) has joined #wineconf hmm for me, I get working data dand video for a while then the audio drops out and never fixes itself i pause it, play and it sorts it out <-- _New_ has quit () i think we are pretty unimpressed with the darwin broadcast server... yes... seems fine here under mplayer pauses every so often but not for very long why not try the helix server? (for use with realplayer ..) Or simply put each of the presentations/sessions as a separate video file which can be downloaded. really strange my qt can't receive anything .. the audio is probably the most important part, more so than smooth video its too bad it is not all that clear mine just keeps dropping every 15-30 secs anyway guess we'll all have to attend in person next year (audio drops, not video) hmm.. I adjusted the QT plugin settings to increase the audio FIFO pumped it from 180ms to 300ms seems a 'little' more stable googling for this server not found thing, it seems that some mac and PC people get it too, and no one has the slightest idea why <-- RShearman has quit (Remote closed the connection) (like for accessing other random streams) lets try it with real10 on windows. . (helix based) how do u configure the buffer size in qt? The browser plugin? perhaps it is related to the connection type you choose on the bottom right, there is a downpointing arrow. click it, and choose preferences. then in the dropdown, choose 'audio preferences' which qt u using - not on mine! <-- UweB has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) QT6 This is in the browser plugin, isn't it? --> UweB (~bon@p5081649B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #WineConf no, I was running qtplayer yeah- the stand alone player doesnt give the option to configure the FIFO Back again. Playing with mplayer -vo dga crashed... What url u using? http://www.winehq.org/wineconf/stream.html dga needs root permissions .. use the xv backend --> RShearman (~Rob@cpc1-warw1-6-0-cust105.brhm.cable.ntl.com) has joined #wineconf i agree with shachar on the patch issues patch issues? it is hard to know whether a patch was dropped or missed the kernel has a patch management system now right? one that resubmits patches if they haven't been responded to <-- Wierd (wierd@ip68-102-245-12.ks.ok.cox.net) has left #wineconf that would probaby be useful looks like the tape ended ok people are returning to start again. we should resume live soon. neat how was the audio at the end? is there a plan to put the slides(if there are any) up on a website? it wasn't bad was hard to hear people int eh back and was skipping for me every 2 seconds for like 1/4 second or less yeah we got a directional mic to mic the questioning people. <-- RShearman has quit () let me know when u start sending again we will get started with the video again once lunch is over. should be 15min or so. Is there an HTTP stream as well, or is it all RTSP/UDP? --- wineconf has changed the topic to: WineConf '04 - http://www.winehq.org/wineconf/stream.html ok we are starting up. your battery is running low ;-) yeah we are looking for more. <[ericP]> sound is awful changing camera battery it is just background converstation right now so not alot of sound. maybe turn off the cameras background noise filtering? --> Vitaliy (~chatzilla@65.100.132.149) has joined #wineconf we are going to ask the speaker to repeat the questions. ugh, quicktime works great for me just my sound doesn't work in wine look like we are starting. please comment on the audio. wer'e getting ready to start Starting right now :-) cmorgan, how is the audio now? <-- henla464 has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) audio is good here aricstewart: skippy aricstewart: runs, skips, runs etc maybe i can adjust something on my end to buffer more aricstewart, it skips every few seconds.. but when it runs the quality is fine. cool i think we have the mic working then. I get about 0.5 seconds of playing, 10 second gap :( the skipping is with the streaming. can someone who has it working with QT please tell me what ou have on the "streaming settings" page? 'lo Alex BTW :-) --> RShearman (~RShearman@cpc1-warw1-6-0-cust105.brhm.cable.ntl.com) has joined #wineconf is there a way to stream just the audio the audio got a lot better just now what is the two in the bottom? are yeah, the audio has gone very choppy here on and off... Since the audio is the most impotant part its a pain Two in the bottom ? scr.exe (ms scripting_ and MDAR? you can read the board? <-- Thunderbird has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) yeah MDAC Has the mic something like a noise gate. It sounds like the noise gate shuts off when the speaker pauses and then the noise gate takes some seconds to sstart again after the speaker continued he turns around can we stream the video at a lower res (ie less bandwidth), and hopefully the audio can buffer better? i am not sure what we can modify... jwhite set it all up. the problem is he turns around... yeah we loose the mic here. jwhite asks about licensing IE6 trying something new with the mike and then ran out to answer the phone while in mid question can you hear tom now? <_Marcus_> We at SuSE have a 1 Euro penalty for ringing cellphones during meetings.l :) --> henla464 (~lase@f109.ryd.student.liu.se) has joined #wineconf He is still shoppy At least for me UweB, same here. And here and here - makes it almost impossible to understand. Stupid thing is the audio is the useful bit here! too bad you can't just stream audio discussing licensing yeah we wille xplore that during the next break. sorry all. <_Marcus_> you just have to come here <_Marcus_> :) <_Marcus_> is anyone taking full notes? * mike_m thinks we're getting sidetracked... yes, pleanty of sitting room between me and Marcus <_Marcus_> well , there is more to the left of lionel ,) And we will all have a nice CW T-Shirt signed by Alexandre :-) I'd love to.... I would be there if I wasnt going on holiday on Mon! Even the wife didnt mind me paying for it! JasonEdm, bummer next year... JasonEdm: we just have to organise a multimedia summit in Europe (with Christian, Raphael, Eric you and me :-) ) wine-games conf? :-) i'll be in that unhijacking the conversation is fun... --> Thunderbird (~Roderick@sailsup.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf still no luck from windows :( improving our test suite might be a better approach Well, the test suite is more to test single API entry points. You won't test interactions with a test suite. should we expect interactions to break things? i'd imagine in most cases just having each api work is a bit of it "Won't"? Why not? how is the audio? at all usable. it's been my experence that individual api tests cover 90% of the bugs Yeah, but those are the easy bugs to find :-) we have very poor coverage right now I've given up :-( does anyone have enough backlog to have TD's updated flight info? Mandi called to say that she doesn't have his arrival covered. ok I shall now make my second attempt at mplayer i really think the test suite is the way to making wine work well Let's see if I have logging configured on this XChat... aricstewart can't get a stream over here from windows .. Nope, no logging. So I do not have the log from yesterday anymore :-/ didn't he say that he would arrive somewhere in the afternoon? 3pm or near that time? most every patch to wine should add a corresponding patch to the test wuite suite I have logging enabled that's what I seem to recall, but I don't have details. Yup. Not sure if it's the same time as the flight that got cancelled. Do not remember. only for today's session ...and we're getting close to 3:00... there shouldn't be much plains arriving from europe .. didn't he say that he travelled from Schiphol? (Netherlands) they usually have only a flight or two a day check for a flight from AMS (Amsterdam) From the KLM site, there are two flights. One at 12:50 and the other at 18:40. are you sure he flied with klm? Yup, sure of it. ok He stayed at Amsterdam yesterday evening. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=ONkBX4wuBHA.1592%40tkmsftngp03&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dloadlibrary%2Blocal%2Bdll%2Boverride%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch that discusses the .local file * puk is happy to NOT have choosen KLM singapore airlines is great :) No more stream here... BBrox: check the NWA website I don't like klm that much ... (although it is Dutch) sky_: yeah, but we are not sure he got the same flight today than the one planned for him yesterday. Maybe he got a seat in the flight before. yes, or they could fly him through another gateway city there aren't that many trans-atlantic flights but maybe ;-) Why does mplayer tell on startup : "This stream is non-cacheable" ? cmorgan: There are tons of trans-Atlantic flights :-) BBrox: maybe a dozen a day? two dozen? but not that many to minnesota, right? at least two dozen cmorgan: there are at least 4 Paris => Atlanta flight operated by Delta. travelling to japan it was funny how few there were a day I would guess more than that was he at a direct connection to MS? Thunderbird: originally yes cmorgan: so well, add this all the AirFrance flights to most major US cities, and just from Paris, you have two dozens per day. yeah so he should be able to get over here ;-) uWEb: nO STREAM AT THE MO Ooops - caps lock :-( all I can find in the log is that he was coming in at 4:30 4:30 ? This does not correspond to any KLM flight I saw on the KLM web-site :-/ BBrox: check natwest northwest you mean? No more streaming! What happened? JasonEdm: mucking round with the streaming or perhaps martinair (a daughter of klm) detours from microsoft research also can override libraries, or individual functions in libraries Well, the Amsterdam => Minneapolis flight is operated by KLM for Northwest. er, northwest http://research.microsoft.com/sn/detours/ wait a second .. bbrox you have an idea when the flight left? I could check when it left from schiphol yes, but they could fly him over another gateway and when it arrived (can do that using dutch television) or perhaps you have the flight code? (oops you haven't ..) we tried to change mics.. but failed... playing with the camera We have the one of the original flight, not the one from today. ok, back online shachar is starting his presentation did he tell if he say he had a morning flight from amsterdam? nyef: we've been talking with Chris Hertel from Samba about midl and widl mike_m, Still no stream for me. Ormod: it should be going No audio here. the video is getting to the computer that is encoding the scream at least... having trouble starting the stream here we lowered the video quality to try to improve sound. ok we just paused the recording. shachar : internationalization is supporting writing different scripts on the screen (thanks mike) localization is adding the various scripts shachar is talking about i18n not localization (he's rebooting his laptop because he's having a problem with the X server) --> Dave2 (~dave@teppic.demon.co.uk) has joined #wineconf can't start stream (ok without sound) stream is not going now. camera is paused. Hmm... What's the current time in Wineconfland? 2:20 pm ah shachar is starting again mike_m: What was that about midl and widl? nyef: samba is implementing an IDL parser too maybe you guys can work together ;-) but they're concentrating on generating proxies cmorgan: yes, we talked about that Ahh... although that isn't the spirit of open source ;-) typically the room filling ego's prevent such things from occuring ;-) Okay, so they aren't doing anything with type libraries yet, right? nyef: well, not much :) <-- shachar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) slides 2: MBCS: Multi byte characters set * use primarily for CJK - Chinese Japanese and Korea ok, stream people. any luck? better audio? no audio :-( * if first byte is in the usual ascii range, character is ascii no audio at all? cmorgan? same? aricstewart: can't start playing here next slide Traditional MBCS problems same here - it goes without audio aricstewart: maybe too much traffic ? * in DOS mode - display is only 80 bytes wide Vitaliy: starts for you if you disable the audio? * solution - dbcs are twice as wide Still nothing at all on the stream here yes Vitaliy: what option is that? (mplayer 1.0pre2) * cannot random access string * cannot even reverse scan * when application is not mbcs aware, second byte causes trouble * example - first byte is an aggregrate, second byte is '\' (interferes with directory parsing) no audio at all, even if I pause and restart it (ie nicely buffered for a few secs) aricstewart: stream works but only if audio is disabled. next slide: ok so our attempts caused things to become worse. :-( * the (attempted) solution Building audio filter chain for 16000Hz/1ch/16bit -> 16000Hz/2ch/16bit... Starting playback... But it isn't playing anything * 16 bits ought to be enough yeah, it sits there for me too ;-) * ucs-4 - 32 bit characters * utf-16 - 16 or 32 bits per char Oh yeah I can see w/out audio * utf-8 - 8, 16, 24, 32 bts per char * while the utf encodings are multibyte per character, they do allow backward scanning * still no random access though --> stegefin (~stegefin@m57.net81-64-140.noos.fr) has joined #wineconf --> gav_mac (~gavriels@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf hi gav_mac :) <-- UweB has quit ("epic+tkirc2") --> dimi (~dpaun@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf hey hey ok, so with mplayer I get Building audio filter chain for 16000Hz/1ch/16bit -> 48000Hz/2ch/16bit... Starting playback... and then nothing --> UweB (bon@p5081649B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #WineConf is that at least the same as someone else now? :) same here That's better than I get. ajptx: yep well it's hard to say if it's better as it doesn't work -- but no one else had my QT error ajptx: Yup, me and cmorgan I know mplayer isn't totally hosed as I can play the quicktime samples from disk ajptx: Your mplayer doesn't catch signal 11. Therefore you've got better results than I do. (the ones from installing quicktime that is) new slide: windows solution - word in unicode * for windows nt and up, all functions are unicode Mplayer no freezes with "Starting playback..." when starting. Does mplayer work for others? Nope same result here Same with ajptx, cmorgan and I the "legacy" interfaces cal the new ones * this elimates most (not all) of the Intl. problems UweB: if you disable sound it works. but since sound is 98% of the presentation it dosen't make much sense to do so ;-) * windows started out too early - uses 16bit unicode. when utf-16 came along, aggregrates had to be used windows 9x has MSLU (unicows) cmorgan: what did you do to disable sound? I tried null audio output and got same result "the thing (unicows) is a hack!" ajptx: add the -ao option, like -ao aslkjfasljkf forced to ship with application... never in windows/system -ao none it looks for the output plugin aslkasljkf and fails ;-) yeah or that too Is the proper way ;) unicows applications are dodgy - "things won't work" hey that worked! -- null was too proper 'cept I used -ao screwyou Please notify when sound is supposed to work again shachar submitted unicows to wine... alexandre accepted it with a "small" rewrite ;) new slide: * Arabic, Persian, Hebrew and Yiddish are written as a rule, from right to left * numbers and quoted latin characters are written from left to right, even if in the middle of RTL runs * the resulting text is called "Bidi" ... new slide; already heard something about td's arrival? Who is "td" * visual order - the sequence by which the characters should be displayed on screen (usually specified from left to right). Mike Hearn * logical order - the order by which the characters wouldhave been said if no writing was to take place next slide: * 28 steps to convert logical ordered string to visual to Minneapolis, right? * has about 3 versions 28 steps? there are 4 flights to that place As in, "From a File to a Process, in 28 Easy Steps"? err, seem to be 2 after all. .. one left at 10:35 AM (GMT+1) it is the kl6041 or nw0041 and one at 16:45 kl6055 nw0065 * ajptx has a plan * mike_m returns any of you ever used a free VOIP program called TeamSpeak? it's crossplatform and I've had good luck with it in the past nyef: he meant 28 steps to go from a string of text in memory to a bidi string on the screen ajptx: yup it's not that hard to set up, and maybe would work better for sending out the audio...... mike_m: I was really commenting on it being 28 steps in both places, and was wondering if it were deliberate or a coincidence. nyef: dunno... nyef: have you heard of "muddle" ? I only heard about 'muggle' :-) I've heard of a couple things by that name, which one do you mean? nyef: something that generates idl from a typelib apparently No, that's a new one by me. http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~matthewc/muddle/ That's going to be a lossy translation, though, as there are things that you can express in a typelib that you can't in idl. What's that thing which just came up on the display? nyef: yeah... might be kind of interesting and helpful for debugging for you Hunh. The web page says that it's more for executables with the embedded stubs... sounds like they want to say "typelib" but they don't know how Should the audio stream work now? UweB: yep ooh hmm still not working for me I like those answers like "yep" , They can mean anything .... * BBrox put his first 4 slides on http://bbrox.org/wine_gaming.sxi (need OO to open it) It is supposed to work <-- [ericP] has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/20030630]") UweB: not working for me either After that, wondering what to speak about (ie how DirectX works (COM stuff, objects, ...) or how it works in Wine or what to do in the future or ...) UweB: same for me Looks more like it's parsing NDR marshalling instructions. BBrox: would like to know how we handle all of the different versions of directX how we can reuse code nyef: ah, ok It's -very- untypelibish code. or how we do reuse code For the moment, we mostly don't do any reuse. At least not between D3D1/7 and D3D8/9 Is nobody moving, or is it frozen? nyef: ah, ok... yeah, it's something different from what i imagined Ah, nobody was moving nm * nyef wishes he could get the last 13 bytes of difference on stdole2.tlb correct without using a binary patch. :-/ cmorgan: are you looking at the .inf scripts for installation? nyef: impressive :) dimi: if i knew wht needed to be done i would be mike_m: Which, that I can't, or that it's only 13 bytes? dimi: alexandre said he wasn't sure how we were going to handle the default config issues. i assume thats what you mean hmm the stream's frozen cmorgan: I was just talking to Alexandre, and we identified that one as one of the important outstaning issues. He was hoping you're looking into it dimi: if you guys come up with a solution, i thought i heard one in alexandres keynote speech, then yes, i'll be working to get wine to create its default configs and fake_windows drive if none are present nyef: that it's only 13 bytes Failed to get a SDP description from URL "rtsp://wine.codeweavers.com/wineconf.sdp": cannot handle DESCRIBE response: RTSP/1.0 404 Not Found dimi: the inf file that will fill in the stuff taht the dll registers don't handle? oooh stream working for me with audio now cmorgan: I guess. The big problem is that if we don't have the scripts, we can't say if the current Setup API we have is good enough dimi: who calls the regsrv32 for the dlls? would we just add registry key adding functions in the dll register functions? if i knew a little more i'd be looking into it more I tried doing stdole32, but it's in SLTG format, and I'm nowhere near familiar enough with it to try and minimize the change... It did come out to the same filesize, though... sweet I got audio too! cmorgan: so we need to get some scripts done, and see what we actually need out of the Setup API Audio is working again!! dimi: why would we think the setup api isn't good enough? aren't all we doing is adding registry entries? At least the stream is there again, cmorgan: the API is OK :), but we don't know if our _implementation_ is OK The US accents... They are too much! dimi: so we haven't tested the setup api against actual inf files? ;-) uhh cmorgan: so if we wait too much with this stuff, we run the risk of not having a usable implementation when we need one gone again? cut off for me yeah same here Yes, gone again! cmorgan: we did, but we can't be sure we have implemenented all featured that _we_ need dimi: what would this inf file do? hold on I guess it will have to install reg dimi: so it would run regapi winedefault.reg for now? to be honest I don't really know, this is Alexandre's idea :) dimi: or would we want that stuff moved into the dll register calls first? Let me try to get Alexandre in here dimi: becuase you are correct, i've got great interest in fixing this stuff up due to the time i spend helping people do it by hand here on irc ;-) <-- stegefin has quit ("Got to go... ++") UweB: yeah, no stream now :-( The stream seems to be there, there's no 404 But it's not doing anything yeah mine just sits there stream WE HAVE SIGNAL or I do at least --> m-f (AxelF@p5085E40A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #wineconf hold on a few minutes chris dimi: of course nobody's there though, and it sounds like there's a driller there ooh person and no person audio sorted out Yeah, I hear the test. *cough* neato stream is working ;-) bbrox: Whats oo (to open it)? sorry - went away for a bit openoffice.org figures we get it working, and now we are on a break for the next 30 min. ah... Dont support you could save it in word or lotus formats :-) we could play back some old footage. If anyone wants to see it. Yay, reruns <-- jasfilb_away has quit () cool, I can see and hear the chaos between talks! aricstewart! can you have Joe put the Alexander keynote tape in. should I hear anything at the moment? yes I hear lots of voices Nothing important But audio oh - came and went and came and went and .... And the picture is actually working Just nobody's there ATM audio. cool And I've lost audio again... heh and picture lost video here yup ok we are working to try to fix it. heh I guess this is harder than it looks :) yah. I (jer white) feel like a fool. I swore after wineconf that I would only do audio, and a conf call service would be better, imo. audio and webslides are adequate or rather that would be MORE than enough thats what i meant yup. that was the original plan. not sure why I let myself get carried away with this... I think it just seemed so promising having video is very neat not necessary to do so live though ;-) Yeah Good to comment on, but ultimately looks like hard work oho stream again *ooh oh yes! a bit of reverb cmorgan: dude! dimi: hey ;-) heh, tape rewinding? I've talked to Alexandre --> jil (~juan@dhcp180.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf he said the the following: 1. register the DLLs 2. move (the rest of winedefault.reg) to the .inf script --> Thunderbird_ (~roderick@sailsup.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf 3. create the Windows dir structure dimi: wine would create the windows dir structure at startup if it detects none is present? so, apprently, what happens is that currently 90% of winedefault.reg is made up of reg entries that DLLs know how to register themselves dimi: or you mean those three things are what the info file does? yes, it's done in the .inf files stream stopped dimi: yes, he mentioned that most go into dlls, whats left has to go somewhere else special ;-) no <-- _Marcus_ has quit ("Lost terminal") dang it seems like whenever someone stands in front of the camera the stream stops :| pause and unpause so, the thing is that that stuff is already in the DLLs but nobody registers them, so the code doesn't get invoked! dimi: seriously? you know of an example? so we just statically place those reg keys into winedefault.reg ok, -cache 8192 -ao sdl really sped up my audio so, once we have a .inf script to register the DLLs, we can simply delete 90% of the stuff in winedefault.reg That's a point I forgot -ao alsa9 dimi: alright. so 1 and 2 seem pretty easy the rest of 10% of keys from winedefault.reg need to be converted to the .inf syntax and placed in the .inf script dimi: and i suppose we call this inf from wineinstall? so the result is we can simply delete winedefault.reg cmorgan: yes, that's correct dimi: did he say anything about a default config and default fake window directory? i'd like to have that stuff setup correctly for users rather than have hacks like the rpm packages do to the wine source that do this yes, that was point (3) packages won't have wineinstall should they? so, let me review the process for you does someone have the link to lionel's slides left? <-- m-f (AxelF@p5085E40A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left #wineconf so, the user does: configure && make depend && make install then, they somehow (say through wineinstall or such) invoke the .inf script http://bbrox.org/wine_gaming.sxi <-- Vitaliy has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.45 [Mozilla rv:1.6a/1]") thanks (maybe we do a "make config" or somesuch) now this step invokes the .inf script ajptx are you hearing any sound right now? can make install run the script or at least print out a message telling them what to run? can anyone convert it to ms office for me - i dont have oo just now the script will then do the 3 steps: Thunderbird: yeah i got sound 1. register all DLLs 2. add the rest of reg entries to the registry hmm 3. create the dir structure for a fake windows install having the speakers off, helps ofcourse ;) heh What's going on right now? dimi: what about rpm packages? that's a different story dimi: what if a user blows away ~/.wine do we just recreate it? the .rpm packages should invoke the .inf script as well on install dimi: i think it would be nice to create stuff for the user if it wasn't there playig right now is the second tape from this morning. i think it is the wine 1.0 presentaion yes how is the audio? ah dimi: so we'd have to include the .inf file right? Working for me it is a little laggy for the rest it works hmmm, what about wine itself running the script if ~/.wine is missing??? ok but it is actually understandable? Drops out for a bit ajptx: it won't be a script, it will be an inf file --> _Marcus_ (~marcus@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf Generally is, yes include it where? dimi: as a part of the install yes, of course <-- Thunderbird has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Ah, it's the whole thing lagging dimi: /usr/local/share/wine or something which is odd dimi: like i was proposing to do with winedefault.reg and the default config files ;-) Paused and unpaused, no lagging now yes, we have to find a home for it I say as it starts to lag <-- Thunderbird_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) --> crazney (~crazney@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf dimi: would we check in the wine binary at startup for missing config files? $prefix/share/wine sounds OK I guess --> villager (ovehk@wirth.ping.uio.no) has joined #wineconf no, that's a different story dimi: as opposed to the wineserver [16:33] _Marcus_: can you tell someone that the qt stream is broken? [16:33] just keeps looping over and over trying to start dimi: ideas on that then? ;-) Is this now a life stream? i'm guessing its supposed to be.. http://www.winehq.com/wineconf/stream.html cmorgan: I think that's a different problem altogeter UweB: it's a recording I think cmorgan: let's first do the script to do what Alexandre wants --> shachar (~sun@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf dimi: i think so as well, but i'd like to nail that down as well no, this is playback from this morning cmorgan: and we'll solve a lot of problems: Alexander's keynote 1. we get rid of winedefault.reg 2. we test the self-registration code well i don't think you could call it a stream then.. ah well But if the recording has the intermitted sound, it not sthe streaming failing, but the recording... 3. we test that we have the right implementation for Setup API this we'll get us 90% to the goal dimi: yep. sounds like you guys came up with something ;-) once we have that, we can reasses what else needs to be done Isn't the SetupApi one off these big undocumented things. the streaming doesn't quite seem to work for me :) dimiL that sounds like a good plan -- it's really hard helping people in IRC when no 2 of them start from the same place dimi: i'll get right to work on that actually indeed SetupAoi also appears in the context of hardware dimi: trying to find the existing register code you mentioned very cool I keep getting 1 second of sound and video, then 10 seconds of nothing, 1 second of sound of video, 10 seconds of nothing, etc cmorgan: it seems that this is a key piece of work for 0.9, one of the top 5 issues grr i just don't get anything.. quicktime tries to load.. counts down from 10, then starts again dimi: i can't see it being that difficult either cmorgan: so the sooner we nail it, the better saying 'waiting for media' --> bcrt2k (~bcrt2k@HSE-Toronto-ppp116581.sympatico.ca) has joined #wineconf cmorgan: indeed, so much more reason to get it over with :) Testing one two is heard. crazney: I tried quicktime ever since the test stream and finally gave up 1/2 hour ago and compiled mplayer dimi: and the default config creation will reduce the load due to people creating config files by hand crazney: why don't you use mplayer? --> Thunderbird (~roderick@sailsup.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf hi back dimi: its amazing how many people install wine and simply have NO config files at all cmorgan: right, among a lot of other good things But is't not long enough provoke the intermitting sound. villager: well, its a quicktime stream.. why should i have to? crazney: so that you don't have to use wine to see it? dimi: alright, thanks for talking to him. i was mostly just waiting for something concrete ;-) step by step I found for getting everything you need for RTSP stream to work with mplayer http://warriors.eecs.umich.edu/endhost/instlinux.html villager: i'm on my mac ajptx: It says on the wineconf page... cmorgan: way cool -- I'll let AJ know that you're working on it. haha sound is good niow .. yo yo Christian (if you are here...) - Worked perfectly, thnx Sound test is shoppy now and volume very high cmorgan: I have to go talk to fgouget, I see you guys in a few minutes but better than before (atleast for me) Yeah choppy before I could barely hear it (and my volume wasn't low) Can you just stream audio and nothing else? I can hear what they're saying, just choppy... (as a test) Jason, I'm here. I'm happy that it works... audio gone and back alsa-play: xrun of at least 54.716 msecs. resetting stream 0.0% 424 0 0% etc Dave2: I could not even get that version of QT to play it Battery low! hahah Dave: Run mplayer with -ao sdl even when you have Alsa hmm yeah that is helping a lot Trying now isn't it best to fix video before worrying about audio? villager: video's fine no it's not Correction: fine for me But the battery's low --> [Shad0w] (~shad0w@c-c41d72d5.019-165-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #wineconf Ove: Audio is more important to follow the discussion... last wineconf the video didn't help that much .. well, perhaps if you have the slides .. but when the audio stops because the video stops, it's probably easiest to fix video first the chance of having good video is very very small look at tapes from conferences, they often times are quite difficult to see I'm just waiting for the cam to turn off... audio is easier, bandwidth wise ;-) how would I get just audio, then? I prefer to have high quality audio .. I have bandwidth enough how much bandwidth does the stream take up, anyway? Battery REALLY low now so how do I turn off video? well we'll have no video OR audio soon no idea * Dave2 waves randomly at people at Wineconf with a "Plug in the camera"-engraved hand hah <-- jil has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) we are about to lose the stream for a while..... * Dave2 hopes that laptop has #wineconf on it :P as if there was really a stream to watch anyway break... switching battery thanks for seeing it. excellent yay yay, full battery dimi: i'm not finding the code that supposably will create the default registry entries But still choppy sound... argh loud Argh! and still 10 seconds of no video and no audio between each second of those --> jil (~juan@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf or something hmm villager: what software you using and what connection? mplayer connection? what kind of internet connection? did you already tried the tweaks ajptx proposed? 10Mbit ethernet connected to a router with a 1024Kbps ADSL --> ace (~ace@179.ppp132.rsd.worldonline.se) has joined #wineconf what tweaks? -cache 8192 -ao sdl These tweaks don't help with the choppy sound for me. does -cache work? it says "this stream is non-cacheable" Same here -cache makes no difference... I also wonder why the stream is tagged "non-cacheable" maybe it did nothing, but I tried both of those at the same time in response to something i read..... (on this stream) and it helped i did not experiment further Perhaps some setup is wrong? ajptx: The "Your computer is TOO SLOW YOU IDIOT" message from mplayer? Some setup in St. Paul... heh yeah ************************************************ **** Your system is too SLOW to play this! **** ************************************************ yeah Woo, my Athlon XP 2600+ is too slow to play a simple stream Aric: Can you comment why the stream is tagged "non-cacheable" its a 128x64 pixel stream, 10fps with low quality audio or somethign ;-) but yeah, i got a kick out of that error msg from mplayer have seen that error too ;) Run mplayer on the earth simulator Your system is too SLOW to play this! should it matter that the router is NAT-ing when I use that rtsp-over-tcp thing? villager: Worksfor me with NAT hey villager fwiw its improved a lot for me (I'll regret saying that if it dies) heh I guess that a "non chachable" stream will allways be choppy when transmitted via IP... audio gone hey crazney damn you JasonEdm ;) kinda works for me too except that I only get a second of stream every minute or something still audio over here yeah just came back mike_m: hi why did they choose to use apple stuff? and not for example real stuff? (partly opensourced helix ..) Well, what else is there really? Real....*shudder* Ove: For me it is "only" choppy, with some seconds playing and some few seconds paused. They're using rtsp anyway ;) it atleast has a real linux client .. an opensource (helix) and closed one (realone/realplayer) Why does the pic say "paused" anyway? Can anybody in St. Paul comment why the stream is marked "non-cacheable"? heh ARGH, GET IT AWAY! why does audio go bad after someone says "testing 1 2"? I have to run out for a bit -- catch you all later cya <-- ajptx has quit ("back in a while") ok sorry i was away. can someone check the stream? yep It just died for me Stopped it stopped just a moment for me still stopped ;-) it still says non-cacheable Back at the keyboard. running again it should be broadcasting. bad audio... gav_mac is about to take the stage jwhite is advertising the Ice Palace in St, Paul cmorgan: more news from AJ heeh audios fine here...! JasonEdm: just discussed a bit with AJ about our visual / GL issues. sorry guys ok, whats his view? cmorgan: so, the .inf script will be invoked from wineboot Aric: can you at least switch of the camera insert perhaps we all should just wait for the event to be over and download and watch the recorded streams after that <-- _Marcus_ has quit (Nick collision from services.) switch of hte camera insert? i dont understand... sorry yeah --> gmt (~greg@adsl-65-43-252-173.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) has joined #wineconf dimi: uncondititionally? OSD cmorgan: and we'll need to make sure that packages (.rpms, etc.) arange in such fashion so that wineboot gets invoked on login by users --> _Marcus_ (~marcus@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> ivanleo (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf mike_m: hey, hows tricks? dimi: on login? Like battery, status, all that stuff which camcorders stick on the video for some reason Ove: The recorded stream of Alexandre's opening also seems to be choppy... yeah we are trying to get read of this. I knew I'd regret saying that cmorgan: yes, on login err rid of that. hello peeps mike_m: is gav up? we dont know what happeend to cause it to start up but it will not go away. gav is up. http://www.transgaming.com/papers/shmserver.html dimi: ahh. is that normal for apps to do? crazney: yes gav is up JasonEdm: basically, he may back the change for the 'one Windows window == one X window' Audio still dodgy... he's presenting the above URL No the sound has echo additional to being choppy cmorgan: not unconditionally, only if we haven't run it before UweB: Yeah, same here specifically the sleep example Slight reverb JasonEdm: which only lets us use (for non-full screen applications) the PBuffer option... well we increaed to 2 mics so we can mic the qquestions. BBrox, are you talking about one desktop for all wine apps when in windowed mode? cmorgan: no, we're not sure how we'll achive that, it's for packagers to figure out :) so you may be hearing the two mics bcrt2k: no, it's another issue. dimi: why not have wine check when it starts up? oh okay cmorgan: that's another way, but it's too expensive / inefficiant so we are stuck with the visual on creation time? JasonEdm: if we use PBuffers, not as we can always re-create the PBuffer. Aric: Di you notice that the stream is marked "non-chachable"? That me be the reason why it is choppy dimi: we couldn't have the wine client keep track of whether it was run yet or not? maybe ask the wineserver? JasonEdm: for full screen apps, yeah. But AJ plans to write some code to replace one window by another dynamically. I've spent hours and hours failing dismally with pbuffers :-( (so we can piggy-back on this code for our uses) <_Marcus_> /cl i did not notice, jnewman is the broadcasting guy and i cant really talk to him until breaks. JasonEdm: BTW, what do you think of my slides :-) ? ok, so we can replace the visual. Whats the diff between full screen and windowed wrt to the x window cmorgan: problem is that startup time is too big already, we need move time out of wine into wineboot cmorgan: brb dimi: no matter to me i guess ;-) gav is running a demo "miles"? <-- wineconf has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) miles is an audio api is it any interesting demo? lots of games use it villager: i think its alice. demoing a game bbrox: fine - I dont know what else to say to be honest. FYI I have today started looking at hw shaders using the ARB_vertex_program stuff JasonEdm: did you synchronise with Raphael on this ? Or did he completely fell out of the net :-) ? fps = 50 no, he's vanished recently wineserver takes 42% of cpu maybe transgaming assassinated him? He must have found a girlfriend :-) heh gav_mac is starting the shmserver wineserver (same game) wonder if it'll crash? :) cmorgan: right, it doesn't really matter to you, this stuff is up for debate, but we need the .inf script first so we can invoke it from whereever :) crazney: so far so good ;) BBrox: :-) dimi: is there a way to run things from an inf file? dimi: ie, could we run regsrv32 from the inf file? fps = ~95fps <-- Dave2 (~dave@teppic.demon.co.uk) has left #wineconf ("Client exiting") cmorgan: I don't know, I'm not that familiar with .inf scripts wine = 99% of cpu, wineserver = 0 its a shame as his work on the shared d3d code would have made life easier, but has also halted future work on d3d9 waiting on it! dimi: i can't find anything about doing that. lots of stuff about copying files and registry entries ;-) cmorgan: why do you need to run stuff> JasonEdm: I think we can do as if he did not do anything... We can always re-adapt his code once he cames back. dimi: register the dlls? cmorgan: you should be able to do that JasonEdm: anyway, the day I buy a new card, I will try to work on D3D8/9 too :-) I wish I could hear this presentation :-( I can see it ok! if the setup engine that reads the .inf file can invoke programs, then it shouldn't be any problems? I need a new card too - I only have a geforce1 ouch * BBrox has a TNT2U :-) * mike_m wonders what "AHHHHH possible callback problems" means .... ;) No wonder the games are all slow! :-) villager: i've little idea about thist stuff yet. who runs a inf file? ;-) mike_m: did it crash? cmorgan: perhaps MSI these days --> peteH__ (~peter@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf peteH__: * mike_m wonders what "AHHHHH possible callback problems" means .... ;) Is the stream currently up? is that new mac build of wine fully functional? Its up, but audio is choppy and has echo crazney: no, it didn't crash oh bbrox: One question I have thought about and it might be asking is whether they considered an option of fastbound type application, ie NO server calls, just branch to the code which would have been executed but only support the single process is gav showing his presentation on a mac or pc ? (well at least it seemed to work righ) <_Marcus_> pc I always wondered if that would buy a huge benefit immediately for single process games imo wine running on different platforms is pretty important to the progression of linux as a whole villager: wine doesn't have a native msi program does it? villarer: no, but you can use the M$ one. cmorgan think mike_m is working on that a bit now .. with his msi.dll .. cmorgan: haven't followed wine progress much for a while, but I'm not aware of one (first steps to an installer I think) out of curiousity does the boom mic help with audio on the questions? mike_m: are you working on a msi installer program? ;-) * mike_m is working on MSI imagine, plugging in your usb keyboard and mouse into your modded ps3, installing linux, and wine, and using it as a desktop machine :) cmorgan: you did not remember the broken flex / yacc stuff in MSI :-) ? i recall in the dll i have code to write the database on this laptop but how, under wine, would i go about running an inf file? next is to write a regression test that puts the database layer through it's paces aricstewart: perhaps we could tell if we could hear more than scattered fragments of audio? cmorgan: that is done thru setupx/setupapi mike_m: so how would i go about running an inf file? ;-) tomorrow i will see if we can put together a non video shoutcast server or something.... * mike_m is paying attention to wineserver discussion --> ulrich_ (~ulrich@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf JasonEdm: as for your first question, the difference between full-screen and non-full screen is that in the case of full screen, you HAVE the X window == Windows window case (so you can directly bind to the X window) It's a pitty to loose Alexandre's answers with that choppy sound :-( A helix server would have been great, it does rtsp, http, it's open source, it would work with realplayer... aricstewart: let us know if you make the stream cacheable UweB, He said that there is willingness to have a kernel module to add generic capabilities that will allow faster stuff and trying to get that into the vanilla kernel UweB: can you even hear the questions? Linux kernel? yes Ove: As told, sound is ther for me, but choppy. So I can follow to some extend... if people looked at wine-kernel some months ago it would have been in 2.6x now ;) no it wouldn't linus was willing to add some sort of extension .. I would say a year ago :) oh well ;) is gav still speaking or has a new presentation started? No, still Gav (asking AJ about if it ever would be included in Wine) what was the outcome? aj : "the plan is once i reject your shm server i will work on the kernel" quote/unquote what conditions until the shm server gets in? haha aj : "it's a design issue" "it changes the design of the server" and a kernel hack doesn't? aj wants the server to be multiuser one day that won't be portable to freebsd crazney: well, i think he does't want a hack villager: yes, maybe not or to any other OS or solaris, or whatever else it would be nice to improve performance though cmorgan: shm server would be just as good villager: in those cases, use the plain Wineserver :-) cmorgan: tell me about it... it would be a bit of a problem for binary packages or macosx so what does alexandre want to do instead? BBrox: then you get shit performance fix the root problem via a kernel module? BBrox: the point is to improve performance on all platforms wine can run on tell aj he is nuts :) aj : "you can't debug anything with shared memory server" I dont care how performance improves, but games highlight bad perfomance crazney: as if I care about closed source systems like Solaris :-) BBrox: fbsd, darwin, etc? then add a way to use both wine servers .. as an option BBrox: and you may not care.. but.. what is gav saying about it? so you can switch between both crazney: well, if they are OpenSource, they can code it themselves :-) great, reimplement it for each os - good idea...... crazney: if not, it's their problem having bad performance. crazney: gav says he's still going to work on it what was ajs final opinion on it? well of course we are, its a better solution :) maybe things can be fixed via help from the kenel though in which case that should be fine it covers most of the users aj : "the truth is that part of the problem is that you guys are doing games, and wine is not really doing games" Thunderbird: you pretty much already can in the origin design. what is aj's answer to that option of providing two servers? But I think that quote sums it up. Aren't those FUTEXES from 2.6 something usefull for the wine server? aj : "and when wine really does games then we're going to run into that problem" Futexes aren't really all that useful. hmmm Blocking happens on pipes. And you still have to swap between process etc. wine is 'starting' to run games... and performance is a blocker futexes would help if you were using sysv semaphores or something. JasonEdm: ahh, hear that, wine doesn't do games - you may aswell stop now :) <-- ace has quit (Nick collision from services.) BBrox: ^ :) JasonEdm: yeah, but did you measure it up to the WineServer ? JasonEdm: *I* certainly cannot tell where the bottleneck is :-) nope - didnt the profiling patch get rejected? atleast it is a bottleneck (as for Alice, it's using my damn code, not TG's one :-) ) gav: "aj - did you experiment with signals?" what is aj saying? aj = "yes... " * BBrox always find it fun Gav making demos with an OpenGL game :-) aj wants a special system call that doesn't context switch how would that work? <_Marcus_> :) BBrox: he did a demo with max payne last time, didn't he? or that would immediately switch, somethine like CallNamedPipe on windows and age of empires .. villager: no idea. This time it was only Alice. aj : "i've done some experiments using ptrace to signal the server" because it shows that d3d isn't the bottleneck ;) aj : "the problem with ptrace is that you can't use gdb" max payne seems responsive on wine, but fps vs windows? no idea BBrox: but this time his point was probably just wineserver performance, and opengl games show that best since the problem won't be in the d3d->opengl code... aj - "it interferes with debugging" aj - " can have shared memory that is r/o from the client" Debugging and Wine: Two worlds collide :-) gav : "would you accept a shm server that was r/o from the client"? aj - yes <-- ulrich has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) is that alright for gav then? I love the double debugging nature of wine yes, gav seems happy about that ;) wdb and gdb mike_m: good good. yes, i think good :) <-- vizzini has quit ("[BX] Hrm... I wonder if I paid this month's electr...EOF From client") almost breakup time ... so alexandre has accepted the wineserver ? we're going to meet in st paul at 7pm mike_m: so make sure you tell everyone about melbourne 2005 k? ) :) readonly from the client bye all Client side R/O wineserver. <-- shachar has quit ("Leaving") Thunderbird: well, he won't necessarily reject a ro shm server crazney: ok, i'll mention it ;p better than nothing <-- _Marcus_ (~marcus@subnet.codeweavers.com) has left #wineconf not for us (so to update stuff, you do a wineserver call and to get info, you just read shared memory) just as useless pretty much. peteH__: it isnt' enough for you guys? --> Usurp (syl@dyn-81-166-184-46.ppp.tiscali.fr) has joined #wineconf crazney: i mentioned for you hah * Usurp is away: I'm busy everyone rolled their eyes? For Alice, it may not help a lot :-) then add some ifdefs to allow RW too .. I've got the stream up!! hah ha! a bit late crazney: some people said ... ahh too far :) It's seems to be connected with mars, I mean, all these geeks in the same room and you couldn't get anything better than this? anybody want to watch the stream agai? me Will anybody in St. Paul now work to set up the streaming better: Have a chacahable stream, make the ausio non choppy? mike_m: if audio works this time perhaps bbrox: I think we need to get some profiling done. Perhaps we could get it added to the fun projects page - Pick one game and work out why its slower than windows villager: laxdragon is talking about streaming audio tomorrow (only audio) Would be much better - audio only and put the slides on the web too as well as an a/v stream perhaps? The stream framerate isn't very good also make him look into helix .. JasonEdm: yes, i'll try get people to upload their presentations first it might be better .. make people export them to for example pdf .. mike_m: so how to run inf files then? ;-) else you need dozens of different apps to view them .. mike_m: didja hear that you are the object of a senate inquiry? good night JasonEdm: I will speak about profiling tomorrow. <-- Thunderbird has quit ("Client exiting") mike_m: read this: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/01/31/1075340890279.html brill, thnx. FYI I have some patches to get Austerlitz demo running (it was one of the ones someone mentioned on winedevel) Another pointer to mention for games is ones which crash immediately - try supplying the full path + exe, I've hit 2 games now which crash if you dont OK, heading for dinner / tourism / whatever right now (need to find a car :-) ) Ok, c u tomorrow have fun folks crazney: hmmm and if possible put some mpegs of wineconf up somewhere, so we can download them. crazney: looking... its a bit of a read though so you won't get it done before you go to dinner JasonEdm: I know of DungeonKeeper 1 and DungeonKeeper 2 :-) (and also one other game which did not like the fact that I did 'wine ./foo.exe' instead of 'wine foo.exe' :-) ) <-- dimi has quit () crazney: i'll have a look later what's up with the senate inquiry? k, its somewhat of an interesting read as to why you left :) i guess its into why theres is a such a "brain drain" from au though i don't think they use that term JasonEdm, still hacking that other game? <-- muli has quit ("BitchX: its what's for lunch") (its the guy who bothered you about NHL, lol) <-- bad2073 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) <-- [Shad0w] (~shad0w@c-c41d72d5.019-165-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has left #wineconf ("Leaving") A game using IE6 controls to draw menus... That's plain EVIL ! haha i know those guys at EA are LAZY but its not far from working, most things show up in the menu, the music plays, its just that i dont know what im doing :) crazney: well, they're definitely alluding to "brain drain" OK, getting off-line :-) <-- BBrox has quit ("Off-line") <-- huw has quit (Remote closed the connection) mike_m: yeah anyway, talk to you later we're packing stuff up yeah i gotah go too later have fun bye you too Please put mpegs of wineconf up somewhere k yay dinner at my aunts. fun :) <-- mike_m has quit ("Leaving") its 11pm here! avis would work too <-- gmt has quit ("ciao") bit late for dinner might be better than mpegs divx :) whatever is full screen, with sound and can be downloaded will do divx can't be encoded in standard mpeg-2 system streams I think, so avi would be best for that the important thing is that nobody has strange ideas about using todays tapes tomorrow and overwriting todays videos yeah <-- gav_mac has quit ("I like core dumps") <-- puk has quit ("Leaving") Anybody still here? nope The test stream is down, so I can't play about with my configuration:( <-- aricstewart has quit ("Client Exiting") <-- ulrich_ has quit ("Leaving") <-- jil has quit ("Client Exiting") <-- ivanleo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) --> ivanleo (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf <-- bcrt2k has quit (Remote closed the connection) <-- henla464 has quit () <-- Usurp (syl@dyn-81-166-184-46.ppp.tiscali.fr) has left #wineconf ("Client exiting") --> Z_God (~julius@schwartzenberg.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf Bye <-- UweB has quit ("epic+tkirc2") bye <-- JasonEdm has quit () --> filip2307 (xgecko@prahaf-3-98.dialup.vol.cz) has joined #wineconf <-- sky_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) --> bcrt2k (~bcrt2k@HSE-Toronto-ppp116581.sympatico.ca) has joined #wineconf <-- Ormod has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) <-- fgouget has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) --> wirser (~none@66.243.183.124) has joined #wineconf <-- crazney has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) --> Curtis (~Curtis@ip68-107-114-101.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #wineconf --- Curtis is now known as Curtis|out <-- ivanleo has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.4") --> ivanleo (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf <-- filip2307 (xgecko@prahaf-3-98.dialup.vol.cz) has left #wineconf <-- GvG has quit ("Goodnight") <-- ivanleo (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has left #wineconf <-- wirser has quit ("Client Exiting") <-- Tom-W has quit ("Client Exiting") <-- Z_God (~julius@schwartzenberg.xs4all.nl) has left #wineconf <-- bcrt2k (~bcrt2k@HSE-Toronto-ppp116581.sympatico.ca) has left #wineconf ("Leaving") --> phillip (~phillip@rrcs-sw-24-153-226-6.biz.rr.com) has joined #wineconf <-- phillip has quit (Client Quit) --> marv (~ilovekimm@64-251-140-229-dialup-mo.fidnet.com) has joined #wineconf --> kensavoy (~kensavoy@CPE004005ca212b-CM00003985e266.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf <-- kensavoy has quit (Client Quit) --> ajptx (~ajp@cs6669206-220.austin.rr.com) has joined #wineconf --> Tom (~Tom@207.144.244.11) has joined #wineconf <-- Tom has quit (Client Quit) <-- q[acme] has quit ("Lost terminal") <-- Moled has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) --> crazney (~crazney@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf --> Tom (~Tom@207.144.244.11) has joined #wineconf hola * crazney is away: I'm busy <-- nyef has quit ("System shutting down for scheduled maintainance. Back in 8 hours.") --- m-t is now known as m-t|afk <-- crazney has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) <-- Tom has quit ("Client Exiting") --- Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). --> jwhite[gone] (~jwhite@jwhite.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --- Topic for #wineconf is WineConf '04 - http://www.winehq.org/wineconf/stream.html --- Topic for #wineconf set by wineconf at Sat Jan 31 13:26:53 <-- cmorgan has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- RShearman has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- marv has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- laxdragon has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- peteH__ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- m-t|afk has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) --> TD[gone] (~mike@navi.cs.colorado.edu) has joined #wineconf --> cmorgan (~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-245-76.ma.charter.com) has joined #wineconf --> laxdragon (~laxdragon@jnewman.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> Curtis|out (~Curtis@ip68-107-114-101.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #wineconf --> m-t|afk (~gregasert@z73.211-132-157.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp) has joined #wineconf --> peteH__ (~peter@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf --> RShearman (~RShearman@81.100.44.105) has joined #wineconf --> kirkage (marvel@hill-b-101.resnet.purdue.edu) has joined #wineconf --> marv (~ilovekimm@64-251-140-229-dialup-mo.fidnet.com) has joined #wineconf --> ajptx (~ajp@cs6669206-220.austin.rr.com) has joined #wineconf <-- Curtis|out has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- kirkage has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- ajptx has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- marv has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- peteH__ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- m-t|afk has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- cmorgan has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- TD[gone] has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- RShearman has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- laxdragon has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) --> ajptx (~ajp@cs6669206-220.austin.rr.com) has joined #wineconf --> peteH__ (~peter@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf --> RShearman (~RShearman@81.100.44.105) has joined #wineconf --> kirkage (marvel@hill-b-101.resnet.purdue.edu) has joined #wineconf --> marv (~ilovekimm@64-251-140-229-dialup-mo.fidnet.com) has joined #wineconf --> Curtis|out (~Curtis@ip68-107-114-101.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #wineconf --> m-t|afk (~gregasert@z73.211-132-157.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp) has joined #wineconf --> laxdragon (~laxdragon@jnewman.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> cmorgan (~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-245-76.ma.charter.com) has joined #wineconf --> TD[gone] (~mike@navi.cs.colorado.edu) has joined #wineconf <-- marv has quit (Client Quit) --> marv (~ilovekimm@64-251-142-15-dialup-mo.fidnet.com) has joined #wineconf <-- cmorgan has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) --> Tom (~Tom@207.144.214.48) has joined #wineconf <-- Tom has quit ("Client Exiting") <-- ajptx has quit ("ZZZ") --- m-t|afk is now known as m-t <-- marv has quit (Client Quit) --> peteH_ (~peter@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf --> jcc (~jcc@rrcs-west-24-199-44-118.biz.rr.com) has joined #wineconf hi <-- jcc has quit (Client Quit) <-- peteH__ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) --- m-t is now known as m-t|afk --> Ormod (~ormod@cs78130014.pp.htv.fi) has joined #wineconf --> perchrh (~perchrh@huset.math.ntnu.no) has joined #wineconf --> stegefin (~stegefin@m57.net81-64-140.noos.fr) has joined #wineconf <-- perchrh (~perchrh@huset.math.ntnu.no) has left #wineconf --> nyef (~nyef@h000625ecd142.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #wineconf <-- stegefin has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) --> q[acme] (~acme@kanga.astray.com) has joined #wineconf --> villager (ovehk@wirth.ping.uio.no) has joined #wineconf --> calb (calb@197.Red-217-126-129.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #wineconf <-- calb has quit ("Terminando cliente") --> filip2307 (xgecko@prahab-4-107.dialup.vol.cz) has joined #wineconf <-- filip2307 (xgecko@prahab-4-107.dialup.vol.cz) has left #wineconf --> stegefin (~stegefin@m57.net81-64-140.noos.fr) has joined #wineconf --- m-t|afk is now known as m-t <-- stegefin (~stegefin@m57.net81-64-140.noos.fr) has left #wineconf --> GvG (GvG@geldorp.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf good morning --> JasonEdm (JasonE@the-edmeades.demon.co.uk) has joined #wineconf laxdragon: G'morning. --> nox- (nox@p50867566.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #wineconf hiya. dragging it bit this morning. we were out last night till past midnight again, then back up at 6. After 4 days of that schedule, getting a bit worn down. Ahh. I decided to go to bed at 10 last night just so I -could- be up at 6. gotta go set up the conference room in a few min. Did TD manage to arrive yet? And is there any word on an audio-only stream for today? (for those of us who never got the QT stream working yesterday) hmmmm, we could shut down the video feed, but we are still going to use QT, no time to setup anything else. I'd rather keep it up for now. We may put the video files up for download later (higly compressed of course) Problem with QT is that I got -nothing- promising out of it yesterday. have you tried mplayer? I have had real good luck with that. if you use redhat, you can get a compatible build of mplayer from here: http://atrpms.physik.fu-berlin.de/ laxdragon: Have you tried setting the stream to be cacheable? Might help with the audio's choppiness I got complaints about missing codecs and signal 11 from that. mplayer refuses to -dumpstream that link (which may be du to the fact thats its down now, tho...) the debian sarge version should work as well (for debian guys) And for us Gentoo users? no stream at the moment, the mac is unplugged gentoo, bah Ahh well. I'll just spend the day watching in here and working on the typelib stuff. Without a proper media feed from the conference. search google for building for 'LIVE' support into mplayer, standard mplayer does not have it. Already done. simple patch I think. That was emerge live / emerge mplayer and it has LIVE.COM support. hmm, well 'it works for me' anyway gotta go setup, be on my notbook in hour or so. Even the stock QT 6.5 on windows doesn't work for me. :-/ nyef what mplayer version do you have that doesnt work? 0.92-3.2.3, I think. hm 0.92 didnt have the `real' rtsp support yet iirc, live.com may still work dunno, but maybe you should try a more recent mplayer The 6.5 ver on Windows displayed video but extremely choppy audio yesterday for me Okay, emerge sync in progress... I'll see if it wants to build a newer version in a bit. 1.0pre3 is current laxdragon: perhaps you only tested mplayer over your lan, that's the only way I can see you "having luck" with it... mplayer just says "This stream is non-cacheable" and works like crap is the qt stream the same one or are there two? non-cacheable? thats bad... --> Ivan (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf Hello all. --> newman (~jnewman@dhcp186.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --- m-t is now known as m-t|afk stream is up, camera not on yet. Still have about 45min + before we really get started newman: is the cacheability fixed yet? mplayer refuses to -dumpstream it so its probably not cacheable... --> jkinz (~jkinz@h006097672564.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #wineconf --> mike_m (~mike@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> jil (~juan@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> UweB (~bon@p50816998.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #WineConf Good morning! moin Starting playback... but no window. is that b/c the cam isnt on yet? hi we're on in 15mins or so it's 8:50am localtime would have hoped you'd fix the streams before then Nox: Audio stream is broke. Try with -ao asdfakjh (some bad name for the driver), and you get the video stream Stream is still tagged "This stream is non-cacheable" villager: not sure what's going on with streams Camera still displays the On-Screen menu (OSD) apparently it's not going any better than yesterday Oh dear... :-( Thats not good today we're going to try putting presentations online UweB tnx, stream works now Nox: both streams or only the vidoe? only video mike_m, check out this post from Metze: sorry http://lists.samba.org/archive/samba-technical/2004-January/033983.html --> _Marcus_ (~marcus@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf <_Marcus_> hi Moin Marcus <_Marcus_> moin uwe --> aricstewart (~aric@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf morning everyone will it be announced here when audio is working? Okay, the OSD is gone. Thanks i dont know if we are going to get anythig better than late yesterday yup we figured that one out. Aric, as posted, the tag ""This stream is non-cacheable" seems suspicious. mplayer refuses to -dumpstream it With the nondeterministic delays off the internet, sound _must_ get choppy, i.m.h.O villager: gav is going to have a go at getting it working ok Aric: the is no audio stream --> vinn (vinn@69.59.162.164) has joined #wineconf --> vizzini (vizzini@plasmic.com) has joined #wineconf Aric: Corrected: there is no audio stram or a broken audio stream --> mstefani (~mstefani@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf morning --- cvs/hq/wine/server/window.c 2003-12-13 16:28:40.000000000 +0800 could you disconnect and reconnect? +++ wine/server/window.c 2004-02-01 16:42:00.000000000 +0800 @@ -290,6 +290,15 @@ static struct window *create_window( str free( win ); return NULL; } + if ((unsigned long)win->handle & 1) + { + if (!(win->handle = alloc_user_handle( win, USER_WINDOW ))) + { + release_class( class ); + free( win ); + return NULL; + } + } win->parent = parent; win->owner = owner ? owner->handle : 0; win->first_child = NULL; apparenty the above makes project 2000 work.... aricstewart: stream still not cacheable my audio sounds like a machine gun! --> shachar (~sun@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf hi marcus! how are you doing? ok we switched codec still bad? --> BBrox (~ulmer@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #WineConf sounds the same. This only started a min ago or so, so that might be the new codec? aricstewart: until you make the stream cacheable, absolutely no codec can help you still refuses toMPlayer interrupted by signal 11 in module: decode_audio yeah we are not sure how to do that... still looking. still refuses to -dumpstream it --> dmitry_t (dmitry@pppdrt2.baikal.ru) has joined #wineconf <-- vinn has quit (Client Quit) hi all hi --> vinn (vinn@69.59.162.164) has joined #wineconf hi dmitry_t --> [ericP] (~[ericP]@ACaen-202-1-21-47.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #wineconf ah. much better. <[ericP]> morning folks 404 - not found? dmitry_t: nice patch :) * vinn waves. hi vinn mike_m: thanks :-) MPlayer interrupted by signal 11 in module: decode_audio <[ericP]> same here I still get the gun like sound guess mplayer doesn't like that codec video alone works Its choppy guns though - they keep stopping to reload? --> vandread (~mark@ijbema.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf Well video is not bad. Sound gone, not sure if it's the stream or all those directsound errors. dmitry_t: does that patch make project 2002 work also? unfortinatly i dont think the cashing is something i can do from here. i think i need jwhite to log into the darwin server on winehq and see. but he is very busy right now. i will switch codec back to mpg-4 wonder if mplayer has a way to show transfer rate any other codecs? --> sky__ (~sky@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf or mono rather than stereo etc? good morning oooo, there needs to be a stereo open source project, that should aim to reimplement mono :-) Could xine play the stream? If the wine project forks mono to better support windows.forms or whatever it is, maybe the fork should be called 'stereo', then. ^_^ ok back to mpg-4. almost everybody is here.... we're getting ready to roll jer is going to look quickly at the server, but he feels like we have wasted too much time. we will make the recording avaliable. mike_m: I have no project 2002 CD here --> mifritscher (~michael@pD9EC6F6A.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #wineconf machine gun here too now with mplayer... I failed to play the stream with; mpc/mplayer4win32/IE+QT6.5 ;( try qt 6.3 --> Tom (~Tom@204.116.24.84) has joined #wineconf * BBrox is wondering if the video-out port is working when in Linux on his laptop.... It would be nice if it does for my talk :-) dunno how to downgrade uninstall qt 6.5, install tq 6.3 Sound for me sounds like a choppy machine gun ok, I'll try.thx machine guns at 6.3 too * nox- disables sound again hmm, perhaps the NAT is messing me up after all I'm not getting a bip sound from time to time hi <-- [ericP] has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/20030630]") marcus: where did put the pictures i fear we are running out of time if anyone know how to do it say so asap otherwise we are going to have to give up. <_Marcus_> http://www.lst.de/~mm/wineconf.html try mpeg 1, or better stream over http what is the exact error message about caching so we can google for it? Connected to server: wine.codeweavers.com This stream is non-cacheable Stream not seekable! --> huw (~daviesh@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> wineconf (~guest@jwhite-mobile.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf I don't think a live stream can be seekable no, but I pasted it for completeness villager: any ideas how to make the stream cacheable? --> ulrich (~ulrich@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf no, I've never operated streaming servers is it supposed to be cached in the server? --> gav_mac (~gavriels@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf I think the idea is that the client caches e.g. 2 seconds of data, thus lagging 2 seconds behind the presentation, but in return being protected against 2 seconds of network delays we're testing no video only audio any better? --- Tom is now known as yoyo26 Choppy machine gun with some voice wineconf, still the machine gun sound for me atleast. --> tindalos (~tindalos@ool-18b80cbd.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #wineconf well, at least I now get machine-gun audio without any choppiness we're trying to reduce audio bit rate now villager: you should be hearing Aric's voice --- yoyo26 is now known as Tomm --- Tomm is now known as Tom wonder how to fix "Unable to determine our source address: no address" in my mplayer Just download shoutcast, it's even supposed to have a nice aqua frontend. ;) <-- huw has quit ("Leaving") yah. I was just going to do shoutcast, but the apple stuff worked so nicely we thought it would be fine. should have had someone from europe test it first... Scratch that, no aqua frontend for shoutcast.. my "no address" thing doesn't seem to be a problem though, just makes mplayer slow to start but sorry, folks, we're going to just have to go with what we have --> huw (~daviesh@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf morning huw The current one doesnt have an audio track at all? (Streaming track->format,mpeg-4 video only?) --- Tom is now known as sakala2 --> bad2073 (~titan@AGrenoble-203-1-22-171.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #wineconf Hi! hey jil any better now? yes choppy but not machine gun! cool ok, we're about to start needs to be louder much better --- sakala2 is now known as Twickliar jwhite is introducing the adgenda (agenda) we're going to talk about winelib. mike and tom to talk about joining the wine community reactos demo is anybody logging? I'm going to leave (too late here) and would like to see what happened without me dimi+francois are on dmitry_t, why aren't you here, BTW? Did TD manage to arrive? i think i have logging on now... nyef: yes, TD is here (bugger - spoke too soon. Back to choppy) shachar: problem with US visa dmitry_t, that sucks! shachar: not only you think so :-) so you will also vote against wineconf in the US next year, I'm hoping dimi is talking about winelib he says he took over from francois Next year we should have a vote on the stream server to use. shachar: actually I hope that next time I'll have no problems with US visa again as sound is soooo good, can someone please let us know whats going on? ok --- Twickliar is now known as sakala dimi: you have a win app,and want to port to linux mingw works... mingw is "in the middle" have to change toolset... compiler, etc. change assumptions about the program: case problems mingw can take us half way (from building on windows to linux+wine) once you've ported to mingw on windows, you can proceed to port to wine/linux "we're tried to make the second part very easy" by implementing winegcc, etc winemaker is the first tool. the second is winegcc can someone tell me how to delete all the files on someones computer?? Ivan: we had the wrong audio source selected before Oh, sarcasm. Oops. windres, wrc are now commandline compatible using this technique, we've ported some apps. eg. wxWindows can just go "configure --with-wine" and it will "just work" I'm leaving, bye all <-- dmitry_t has quit ("please do not write in CAPS mode, save my disk space...") we get to test our headers with winelib some problems solved so far ported some other apps... visual mingw, (Odacity?) did have some ugly hacks before, but getting better audacity? nox-: yes, maybe dimi - we have a bunch of problems still... need more features in gcc wxWindows has a trick: builds only as a static library jwhite asks: if i have project foo with foo.c and foo.exe works on windows and then i use winegcc at the end, what do i get? foo.exe? dimi - you get a foo script a foo.exe.so and you type foo and it works small c++ progs are ok... large ones present some trouble --- m-t|afk is now known as m-t vcfwcxAz part of the problem is that we have limited resources <-- wineconf has quit ("Client Exiting") winegcc helps things to be a bit more efficient... missing feature - can't generate dlls when we have that, we can build wxWindows with dynamic libraries that would give wxWindows users a way to migrate to Linux wxWindows apps are sometimes not portable because they use windows api calls boaz - can we use mingw headers? steve ed - no, because mingw headers are borked --> ajptx (~ajp@cs6669206-220.austin.rr.com) has joined #wineconf boaz - can we use wine headers to build on windows? steve ed: yes dimi - yes, that can be a good way to help porting --> [ericP] (~[ericP]@ACaen-202-1-5-169.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #wineconf winegcc works with configure gav: we've been using winebuilder gav: that works well. why use winegcc? fgouget: the way to generate wine libs changes regularly so using winegcc is more stable dimi - if you don't want to port to mingw first, then you don't need winegcc dimi wanted a simple way to port dimi thought there would be many mingw based apps but didn't find so many.... ported a few fgouget will now talk about winemaker --- mstefani is now known as puk btw. is the stream ok? can you guys hear ? not really audio is not really understandable In agree with nox --> Wulfie (~Wulfie@gateway.ottawa.transgaming.com) has joined #wineconf agreed. Sound is bad. i have no sound at all actually, what are you guys using to play it with? mplayer mplayer too. mplayer - i can have audio or video but not both wine-20040121+qt6.3 * nox- has both anyone using quicktime? me ah, it works now for me, thx good, i just told someone to use it without knowing if it works :) slides: Winemaker * windows projects dont have makefiles are the slides on the web? => make it easy to generate winelib makefiles Ivan: no, no slides on the web next slide: Winemaker shortcomings: * should generate mingw makefiles * but winemaker isdumb - guesses project structure from source files - some things can't be guessed => use as starting point next slide: * most windows apps use visual c++ => add visual c++ prjsupport * this way we'll get it right - the right include path - the right set of libs - the right list of source files fgouget is doing a demo "programming win95" book demos fgouget runs winemaker... configure.ac Makefile.in Make.rules.in generated run configure (after generating it) <-- sakala has quit ("Client Exiting") changes into one of the project subdirs runs make script + exe is generated run the script... but it fails! can't find the entry point... actually not the entry point,,, need to link with winmm add winmm to the makefile make again runs the app, and it works! "hello windows 95" the work needs to be done only once --> crazney (~crazney@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf --> Tom-W (~Tom@204.116.24.84) has joined #wineconf <-- crazney has quit (Remote closed the connection) --> crazney (~crazney@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf hi Tom-W hi --> Royce3 (~Royce3@dialup-216-40-236-117.ev1.net) has joined #wineconf --> filip2307 (xgecko@prahab-5-56.dialup.vol.cz) has joined #wineconf --> cmorgan (~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-245-76.ma.charter.com) has joined #wineconf how are you morning ;-) good morning mike_m? sorry... discussion we're talking about dsp->make conversions i suggested just being able to build directly from the dsp file Dimi is trying to dump work on others yeah hes good for that anyone have mplayer options that fix the sound up a little bit? having trouble following the discussion today --> bcrt2k (~bcrt2k@HSE-Toronto-ppp116581.sympatico.ca) has joined #wineconf boaz and fgouget discuss how to link with a dll --> ravelo (ravelo@193.81.29.137) has joined #wineconf dimi - boaz will now demonstrate a c++ app cmorgan: only today? villager: more so today than yesterday even boaz sets up his laptop i think they decreased the audio bitrate... jwhite suggests to break for discussion soon nox-: yes, bitrate was decreased doh boaz suggests "winemaker 2" is it already mono? dsw2make no, its stereo (from mingw project) * nox- only gets sound out of one speaker that would make complete sense I only get sound out of one speaker too. stereo signal with only one input yea if it was mono it would duplicate the audio to both speakers i'd imagine can you guys bump the bps back up and fall back to mono? * nyef is happy to be getting sound at all. licenses-- dos2unix - converting / etc --> gmt (~greg@adsl-65-43-252-173.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) has joined #wineconf "code robots" - pragma packs - declspec property declspec uuid whats a code robot? similar to a fembot i think Something like a codewalker, but with a different name? It's a script that you can plug in the WIneMaker infrastructure that is passed on each file. So basically winemaker walks the list of all files and calls each robots on each file. <-- Tom-W has quit ("Client Exiting") nox-: i think it's just something that looks at the code and makes .spec files, etc boaz wants to use def files rather than .spec thinks we can do a hack to make thatwork What about a def->spec conversion? Would that be feasable? * villager tries to compile a caching rtsp proxy he found on the net nyef: well spec files contain more information boaz complains that static libraries don't work in winelib aj suggests that static libraries work.... fight! :) heh more details! ;-) boaz insists that specifying static libs with winemaker(?) doesn't work dimi+aj+fgouget insist they work heh boaz was outnumbered, so gives in slammed more like --> fingal (~fingal@62.ppp145.rsd.worldonline.se) has joined #wineconf boaz also suggests an stl port for winelib and a "wineguru" site something similar to codeproject codeguru.com ? I'm not building it :-p --> calb (calb@197.Red-217-126-129.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #wineconf maybe people will help boaz with his static libraries so we can see if they actually do work ;-) <_Marcus_> http://www.lst.de/~mm/wineconf.html <_Marcus_> more pictures online break time <[ericP]> which static libs are we talking about ? msvcrt's or gcc's ? I'll have a slew of pics online later tonight, I'll put a link on the WineConf website. neat where is dimi? heh. there's me cmorgan: he's there, 3rd picture down mike_m: yep, saw him there, i mean in here ;-) i'm there... 2nd pic from the bottom, next to gav what happened to the stream? its nice to see people you normally only converse with via email i think the feed is turned off because we're not recording ok Boaz, Dimi, Alexandre, and Francois are having a discussion about shared libs in with Winelib apps why aren't you recording? Joe (the camera guy) is on a cofee break ;) kind of hard to figure out what to record.. and Joe isn't here My pics as soon as I reboot my box :-) we'll take this offline time to switch the audio to mono, if it isn't already and up the bitrate a bit? you guys can just drop the video if that helps and a hiher resolution * nox- doubts that higher res would be good, there are already enough frames dropped as it is... mike_m: so how would an inf file be "executed" under wine? * nyef didn't see any video anyway. the camera is off right now. <[ericP]> cmorgan: an inf just provides a bunch of parameters to run a DOS (for example) program [ericP]: so say i have an inf file, how do i execute that? <[ericP]> an inf is not runnable per se, the filemanager, explorer... know how to deal with them (as shortcuts) <[ericP]> I dunno if we support that yet so explorer myinf.inf ? cmorgan: something like rundll32 setupapi,SetupInstallFromHinf example.inf RShearman: thats how windows does it? grr, can't figure out how to make mplayer use a rtsp proxy --> jasfilb (~jasonf@ndn-ip-nas-1-p190.telkom-ipnet.co.za) has joined #wineconf yeah, and we should support that Actually the setupapi.dll function is InstallHinfSection, but it's not implemented in Wine. ok, well it should be so InstallHinfSection instead of SetupInstallFromHinf? i guess so yup and one or two numbers before the "example.inf" what numbers? these numbers specify if the computer should be rebooted or not and such things "RUNDLL32.EXE SETUPAPI.DLL,InstallHinfSection DefaultInstall 132 C:\WINDOWS\INF\SHELL.INF Example. 132 means Set the default path of the installation to the location of the INF and if a reboot of the computer is necessary, ask the user for permission before rebooting. The Wine prototype for that function has HWND as the first parameter and HINSTANCE of the second. Is this wrong then? gotcha <-- vizzini has quit ("[BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c19 for the Amiga today!") filip2307: those don't match with some i've found online filip2307: you have a source of documentation for this? ;-) cmorgan - MSDN naturally ;-) RShearman - Wine prototype matches the one in MSDN. MSDN says "Note that three exports exist. InstallHinfSection for RunDll32, InstallHinfSectionA is an alias to InstallHinfSection, and InstallHinfSectionW when CmdLineBuffer is a wide character string. SetupAPI has a prototype for this in Windows XP for direct linking." yep, found it 132 is 128(set default path to inf location) + 4(reboot) + 2(ask) or actually, no, hats 1134 134 Ah, I see now 132 is just set path and reboot filip2307: very neat, thanks ;-) InstallHinfSection is different from InstallHinfSectionA and InstallHinfSectionW InstallHinfSection is just for rundll32 filip2307: you wouldn't happen to know how i could embed a combobox dropdown inside of a treeview control would you? ;-) cmorgan - Why would you need that? ;) hmm, no I'm wrong filip2307: trying to fixup a tab in the winecfg program hmm It appears rundll32 fills in the first two parameters for you Gav is demoing Indiana Jones on his OS/X laptop filip2307: it would be useful to have that, would be more user friendly than the combolists outside of the control RShearman: still working on QUARTZ BTW ? <-- ravelo has quit (Connection timed out) Not actively filip2307: just some general direction would be enough i think. i've just never done it before cmorgan - It would be too hard to do it... <_Marcus_> bei meinen /cl <_Marcus_> hmm filip2307: would it be? filip2307: i've seen treeviews with different colored text, that seemed easy BBrox: I had some ideas about how I would do the audio renderer, but never got around to it :( if i understand you correctly, yes that is easy getting ready to start again here. ok, we are about to start the reactOS demo filip2307: basically a treeview with elements, you expand the parent node and the children have text and then the dropdown next to the text we switched to 16 bit mono sound also. is the stream up again? cmorgan - I really have no idea how to do it (easy way)... RShearman: OK, will have to put my nose in it again one of these days :-) apparently we need to broadcast in stereo or it doesn't work can u up the bitrate a bit? boo, next time, we will use shoutcast. (according to aric) or icecast nox-: that makes it less reliable i hear everything in slomo? reactos presentation is starting filip2307: you experenced with windows programming and controls? should i just fallback to having external dropdowns? ie, draw the "name" and then the "value" and update the combobox outside with the value Sound is better now (bitrate was upped to 16bit) sound is much better RSearman: That would be cool to have audio renderer. Some audio apps (like Cakewalk pro audio) are base upon DirectShow. slide: