we have 30 guys sitting here in the room waiting to start jer is appologizing for lack of streaming apparently jwhite just did "ifconfig eth0 down" on winehq.org accidently :/ <_Marcus_> he ifdowned the main wine server ;) jwhite is introducing wineconf --> huwathome (~daviesh@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --- huwathome is now known as huw now is 9:30am here ... we're going to finish up round 5pm --> ulrich (~ulrich@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf <[ericP]> any chance to get the streaming server up later on ? newman is working on it they are working on it server is completly down, we goofed alexandre takes the microphone --> shachar (~sun@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf ooo. we have a presentation from aj's laptop alexandre welcomes everybody he's talking about the last 2 years, wine 0.9 and a Q&A session anybody has any questions, put them on IRC and we'll yell them out Past 2 years: dll sep, wine lib, reactos collab, regression tests, direct x,3d,* i18ln idl, rpc support regression tests are useful! --> Ivan (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf new slide: last 2 years II --> q[acme] (~acme@kanga.astray.com) has joined #wineconf NPTL, Interprocess window management, code cleanups (strict mode, header files, portability), MS Office just works is streaming working already? some discussion of glibc just arrived .. Thunderbird: sorry, no ok * mike_m is the best streaming available atm Hi, is it just my connection or is winehq down? It's down. winehq is down apparently jwhite just did "ifconfig eth0 down" on winehq.org accidently :/ new slide: past 2 years (III) easy installation (wineboot winecfg regedit selfregistering dlls,) web site, documentation julliard complements laxdragon for the website ;) new slide: --> vizzini (vizzini@plasmic.com) has joined #wineconf lines of code in wine <_Marcus_> http://www.lst.de/~mm/wineconf.html <_Marcus_> for 2 pictures getting up to 1,200,000 loc Thnx marcus :-) new slide: New lines/year 2003 is best year on record almost 250,000 loc 2002: 150000 loc 2001: 100000 loc 2000: 120000 loc new slide <-- vizzini has quit (Client Quit) The Future:release 0.9 --> vizzini (vizzini@plasmic.com) has joined #wineconf --> jasfilb (~jasonf@ndn-ip-nas-1-p190.telkom-ipnet.co.za) has joined #wineconf Finish DLL seperation (remove internal functions from spec files: ntdll 5, kernel32: 17, gdi32:3, user32: 21) 20 internal headers, source tree layout Any idea of if/when winehq will be up, and when the live stream will be working? Merge new filesystem code( hi [ericP]( --> m-t (~gregasert@z73.211-132-157.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp) has joined #wineconf finish interprocess window management getting eth0 up shouldn't be much work ... Ivan: working on it --> w3seek (w3seek@pD95434DE.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #wineconf Thunderbird: it's in a colo.. <[ericP]> still around, waiting for the stream to come up :-( Thunderbird, yes, except that it's a colo server Thunderbird, it's in a colo 5 miles away [ericP], we'll see if we can put the next presentation onto a website first ahh so someone is driving to the server now? [ericP], julliard intends to merge you patch in a few weeks <[ericP]> mike_m: that would be great (with your comments) expects a bit of chaos for users [ericP], i had a look at it... looks good! <[ericP]> mike_m: I do 2 new slide: Easy installation: (Finish winecfg, move config to reg, initial registry setup) Command line handling winelib (use winegcc to build wine) OLE/COM what did he mean by command line handling - In what way? wants to get rid of all flags so they don't interfere with apps (apps flags) <_Marcus_> 2 more images <_Marcus_> and a low battery sing To remove almost all Wine-specific command line options. --debugmsg will go <[ericP]> debugmsg is already gone --- jasfilb is now known as jasfilb_brb <[ericP]> btw, I have ROS taskmgr ready for wine integration (and debug channel management included !!) [ericP], i missed that :) [ericP], cool! <_Marcus_> cool Alexandre asks for questions. Marcus raises the '0.9 THIS year' question :-) is 0.9 this year? yes... but we've been saying that for years <[ericP]> In fact, waiting for Steven Edwards to commit first to ROS some last changes (and GPL references), it should be ready RSN <_Marcus_> alexandre ist positive... ;) Boaz asks: "what is the problem in wine that prevents us from using wine in gnome apps, etc" julliard: you need to initialize a windows environment for wine Boaz: why can't we load midstream? julliard: can be possible, but somewhat difficult mplayer rips code from wine because we can't load wine dynamically? julliard: doesn't make sense to use wine for that soon it will be problematic with hybrid .net apps .. Thunderbird, yes, there was some talk of mono/windows forms mono uses a hacked winelib that can't load windows dlls ... if they could link directly with wine then no problem and wine won't have to think about .net .. yes... it would be nice marcus proposes a "winelite" <_Marcus_> i didnt ;) the guy on the floor wants one ;) <[ericP]> wine-lite or win-elite ? (that's boaz on the floor) _Marcus_, maybe proposes was the wrong word _Marcus_ suggests what Boaz wants is a "winelite" ... or build two types of wine libraries .. _Marcus_ notes that mplayer has only specifc requirements Jan is talking about captive fs proposes a similar idea for wine [ericP], it was "wine - lite" ah the captive guy is there too .. yes perhaps he wants his .sys loading code into wine .. (would help secdrv.sys / safedisc a little) <_Marcus_> it is possible. Thunderbird, yeah, it would be nice to have that capabiltity <_Marcus_> i started working on it, but failed on alexanres specific requirements for now * BBrox speaks about copy protection in his 'talk' :-) _Marcus_, did you get it working at all? ericP: did you say debugmsg is gone? <[ericP]> from command line, not from env variables It still works from command line for me... _Marcus_ says the main goal should be to focus on 0.9 I've just updated and rebuilt CVS and it's still there. * mike_m agrees with _Marcus_ jwhite asks julliard if he needs help maintainer will gav speak about wineserver ? if debugmsg goes, that will break bug_report.pl yes, i think so, but don't think he's here yet Thunderbird, he comes tomorrow You have an env. variable to replace debugmsg (which is needed when debugging stuff before command line parsing) <[ericP]> ivan: yes it's still there (but I stopped using it, for some other reasons, and then got used to it :-( gav is showing up tomorrow i think. <_Marcus_> i thought later today .... <[ericP]> BBrox: it's already there WINEOPTIONS (it's used anyway in process creation to pass options around IIRC) many people complement alexandre on maintaining wine well jwhite mentions a ticket system for patches s/complement/complaint/ ? :-) more complements than complains so far... but maybe we're just warming up ;) Ticket system? well, a web interface that tracks patches <[ericP]> any talk about moving from cvs to subversion ? [ericP], sort of mike_m: should you or me ask? alexandre mentioned cvs is a bit crappy sky_, go for it would subversion handle things like whitespace changes, etc? I don't know anything about it... <[ericP]> and subversion is readying for 1.0 svk on top of svn would [ericP], moving to subversion would be good <[ericP]> vizzini : it would handle file moving in tree, complete changeset control ; a gap between cvs and bitkeeper (but won't have the distributed trees scheme of BK) <[ericP]> also subversion relies on webdav for storage, so you have all the web iface for free eric: svk does that what about Arch? arch sucks why? [ericP], julliard wants to switch "when there is a better source tracking system" is hessitant about "the pain of switching" <_Marcus_> i dont think the source control system is really important he is not sure about subversion <_Marcus_> he likes arch more , but it is not ready yet julliard like arch better than subversion julliard says cvs is standard and has good tools some discussion of cvs/branching suckage I mean, since cvs is only one writer, people could set up arch or subversion mirrors without a problem sedwards says reactos will need branches all programming discussions eventually turn to version control ;-) some discussion of crossover & winehq development looks like it's break time for 15mins there's an ISP tech running over to the colo server... --> GvG (GvG@geldorp.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf winehq will be online when somebody runs over there and does an "ifconfig up eth0" on it... :) ok... break for 15mins starts now can someone run there now? --> fgouget (~fgouget@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> cmorgan (~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-245-76.ma.charter.com) has joined #wineconf <[ericP]> is there a way to put the next presentation on a web server somewhere? was thinking about asking that too .. If it's not big I have some web space --> RShearman (~RShearman@cpc1-warw1-6-0-cust105.brhm.cable.ntl.com) has joined #wineconf <[ericP]> RShearman: Hi Robert. Did you have time to look at the winedbg issue ? Yes I can't find anything else in the r_debug structure that contains the needed info I tried having a look through the gdb source code to find out what they do, but it is a complicated mess So I'm back to square one <[ericP]> last time I looked, AFAICS, they were doing a single loop browsing the r_debug linked list Maybe they get the info from elsewhere in the elf file? --> techsoup (~techsoup@AMarseille-201-1-1-201.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #wineconf <[ericP]> I doesn't seem there's other ways (at least I could find docu about :-/) Do you have the same problem on your system? <[ericP]> RShearman: it works fine here (I get all linked .so libs, including libc, libwine...) --> RCampbell (Koolio@pcp04708733pcs.flshng01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #wineconf If you want, I can send you my wine-pthread file to play about with <[ericP]> not sure it would be really helpfull (as I don't have all your libs, and we don't have the same ld.so) <[ericP]> what I'd rather do is 1/ send all the winedbg modifications I have in my tree, 2/ send you a patch for winedbg so I can get what I'm looking for (and a grasp of what I'm not expecting ;-) I have a patch in my tree at the moment which will dump out the whole r_debug structure <[ericP]> ok, then send me the patch and the trace (that's where I'd start with anyway) <-- techsoup (~techsoup@AMarseille-201-1-1-201.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #wineconf ("Multiplicome por cero") <-- mstefani has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) --> mstefani (~mstefani@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf <[ericP]> mike_m: ain't the break over? Waiting for some tapes for the video camera. And, hopefully, for WineHQ to be up again :-) <[ericP]> great... winehq is back Yeah, Jeremy Newman got the colo to ifup <[ericP]> the test stream is back too, not the real one... YET mike_m: Thanks for relaying Alexanders talk btw The camera is not on yet (waiting for the guys to come back with the tapes) JasonEdm: And _marcus_ for the pictures. <[ericP]> you need tapes to stream ? BTW can I see the stream if I have a firewall filtering all incoming stuff? <[ericP]> yup: thanks for the live report(s) Mike & Marcus <[ericP]> Ivan: yes, (with mplayer) look at the -rtsp-stream-over-tcp option definitely... Marcus - You'll have to post piccies of the people you missed (including yourself!) <_Marcus_> i should go around and take more <_Marcus_> i just have like 10 pictures left before battery failure No, but the camera has been shut down by the guys who went for the tapes. I took pictures too... But my cable to transfer to the PC is in my hotel room. Camera guys are back. <[ericP]> ooo BIG TIME Could you check the streams ? any word. <[ericP]> got them initiated, but still no window can someone test the stream? we should have the server back online same problem over here same here - receiving lots of data, but no window it looks like we're only sending audio; any reflection of that? As winehq was down, I'm now building qtwine, will take some time. I'm not hearing any sound Indeed. I get this QuickTime logo with some sort of left-and-right bouncing thingy below it and a deafaning silence. nope, me neither I'm using mplayer wer'e trying to get that to work right now (QuickTime player 6.5 on XP) still having technical problems... Of course, the test stream did that for me too, so I dunno... BTW do I need to change my firewall settings? I did read something about incoming udp on the wineconf list. the test stream worked well at the time .. (behind a firewall over here) I had to add codeweavers.com to my trusted domains, and all worked fine afterwards are you getting audio? BTW the test stream still works fine <[ericP]> mplayer: test stream is ok, regular stream doesn't work OK, Dimi starts to speak. sortof now and we are off. did u put the foils on a website? dimi's presentation is low tech, no slides. he is using the whiteboard. ah... ok :-) he is talking about wine 1.0 step 1: good and stable interfaces types of users... users, winelib users, developers regulard users interact via website, documentation ... --> ivanleo (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf configuration and the UI of the applications runing under wine idealy they never need the docs and configuration. basically they dont care about wine, the care about their app. now talking about winelib developers they care about file formats (spec files, registry, make files etc...) --> _JasonEdm_ (JasonE@the-edmeades.demon.co.uk) has joined #wineconf pretty good shape about those being in good shape. they also care about API and the build tools correction, wine tools. wine developers care about: source code and infrastructure --- mstefani is now known as puk looking at each of these places. 1) the web site it looks pretty good but still some areas need work. the history testing status internationalization various other status pages. 2) documentation not too bad but not complete. goal should be to remove incorrect information. what time is it at wineconf? winelib documentation is very broken. (current time is 11:24 AM) --- jasfilb_brb is now known as jasfilb development guide, good shape, but need to update COM (WIDL) also need to update multimedia docs What about API docs? not alot of work to do, but someone needs to do it. 3) Configuration need to complete regedit, very close nyef: getting there. complete wine config merge config file into the registery 4) UI guys is the conference going to be archived somewhere for download? handling the visible region. RCampbell: yes we are taping it and we will work to make it avalable. <_Marcus_> http://www.lst.de/~mm/wineconf.html ... some more pics speed of the UI is a worry the never ending task of the controls. _Marcus_: neat ;-) the goal is reachable. <[ericP]> laxdragon: Sending request: PLAY rtsp://wine.codeweavers.com/wineconf.sdp RTSP/1.0 <[ericP]> CSeq: 4 <_Marcus_> i did not get the names of some of the guys in the back <[ericP]> Session: 972229276216872682 <[ericP]> Range: npt=0- <[ericP]> User-Agent: MPlayer (LIVE.COM Streaming Media v2004.01.28) <[ericP]> Received PLAY response: RTSP/1.0 200 OK <[ericP]> Server: DSS/5.0 (Build/464; Platform/Linux; Release/5; ) <[ericP]> Cseq: 4 ok thanks <[ericP]> Session: 972229276216872682 <[ericP]> RTP-Info: url=trackid=1,url=trackid=2 <[ericP]> ==> Found audio stream: 0 <[ericP]> ==> Found video stream: 0 yeah the streaming is not working and we did not want to delay more Marcus, nice pics we will try again at the next break. " moving to the winelib users 1) file formats registry.. good not sure about the status of idl <-- Ivan has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) <-- ivanleo has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.4") Marcus, next to Parshall is andrew bogott _Marcus_ :DSCN2690.JPG - tom, jon parshall, andrew bogott --> tindalos (~tindalos@ool-18b80cbd.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #wineconf --> Ivan (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf <_Marcus_> thanks <_Marcus_> and the next 2 pics? nice to see the name appear. Marcus: At the right of the picture before you is Jan from Captive. <-- JasonEdm has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) lots of discussion about derived work and copying headers. result. dont do it. <_Marcus_> i dont think we should discuss legal stuff ;) *) tools --- _JasonEdm_ is now known as JasonEdm work to get more compatibility [i missed some doing lights] wine desktop widl not needed to be complete for 1.0 as long as it does not deviate from the standards Do we need to have DCOM95/DCOM98 replaced before 1.0? <_Marcus_> the general consensus is that it is not a crit5ical point needs to be done but not blocking 0.9 BTW do you know that we've broken the sourceforge rules? sourceforge rules? why is that? Because we host dcom95 there, and we haven't released the source ahh shhhh ;-) <_Marcus_> rwell dont tell anyone is the wine server protocol ever going to be stable? we can't come up with the source can we? ;-) Well, ScummVM is also hosting the CD image for BASS and they do not release the source of the original game :-) aleaxandre: Yes, it should be backward compatible how can I build wine without freetype, is there a configure option? I want to build qtwine to see the stream, but gcc says that gdi/freetype.c is full of syntax errors i'm not sure if you can build without freetype You can. OK, I'll uninstall the freetype headers if there isn't a configure option. <_Marcus_> there is no option, no. you'll have to remove the freetype include files or hack include/config.h to undef HAVE_FREETYPE Discussion about packaging :-) I want to build this thing before the stream starts, I've uninstalled the freetype headers. Can someone tell us whats being said? The idea is to have a separate tool to create the default configuration. Ie some wineinstall on steroids. sorry, i got distracted. --> bon (~bon@p50816643.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #wineconf --- bon is now known as bobesch <_Marcus_> i dont really know what the problem is here. alexandre suggested using dll register to create the registry entries that not so anymore? ;-) Well, I think that 'winedefault' would run the .INF stuff that registers all DLLs. Greatings from darmstadt to St. Paul winedefault being a binary or a script? hey bob <_Marcus_> hi uwe :) doh wrong person ;-) hah i fear i have lost track of the current converstation... <_Marcus_> aricstewart: me too. would we do things like create a default config and a fake windows drive and setup dll links on startup if no config was found? <_Marcus_> aricstewart: some kind of globally shared setup has someone sucesfully built qtwine? I get loads of messages about syntax errors in gdi/freetype.c as long as you guys can nail down what we should do for default configs. thats one thing i'd like to get implemented in the very near future will standard wine-20030911 play the stream? --- jasfilb is now known as jasfilb_away a lot of time here in the channel is spent with default config issues of one sort or another ;-) ok moving on to the next topic. looking at the source: moving some files, /controls /misc etc... * mike_m has been away talking with juan and Chris Hertel from Samba team neat --- bobesch is now known as UweB [ericP], dimi noted your work on ntdll again got distracted. " things are looking good in the source work --> muli (~muli@alhambra.mulix.org) has joined #wineconf dimi asks if he missed anything.. alexandre reminds him of infarstructure work Eric: Any word from Alexandre about integration of your new file handling in NTDLL? UweB: next few weeks. can someone tell me if current cvs will play the stream? (was part of the keynote) Ivan: No stream yet available... we will work on the stream during lunch. UweB, alexandre intends to integrate it within a few weeks Any pictures of wineconf and participants available on the net? I know, but qtwine won't build, even if winehq.com/wineconf says that it works <_Marcus_> //www.lst.de/~mm/wineconf.html <_Marcus_> http://www.lst.de/~mm/wineconf.html <-- w3seek has quit () f00d :-) talk internationalization.... but now food! <_Marcus_> w2ho cares about i18n ;) --> ace_ (~ace@15.ppp141.rsd.worldonline.se) has joined #wineconf I do breaking for lunch How many people are at wineconf? I've tried opening the test stream, from quicktime using wine-cvs abd I get a 404 error try the vido again. i think we just got it going. yes it appears so great! heh we are thinking of replaying alexandre's keynote while we are at lunch. I get live stream, and then "waiting for video", but after buffering I get "switching transport" and nothing happens Did you see me wave ? yes hi lionel Cool :-) its like a postage stamp on my screen ;-) not sure if sound is working but no sound .. Should I open something in the firewall? no sound Ivan: mplayer worked well for me and the framerate isn't that great .. restarted the broadcast to try to get sound. yes sound now ha ok we are going to play alexandre's talk while we eat But I don't want to build mplayer, I'm not confident I'll get it working beofre the conf starts again aricstewart: thanks Ivan: what distro do you run? and then start live after lunch. I have mdk ahh The rpms that come with mdk don't have rtsp support was going to say there are packages for debian can I get some rpms with rtsp somewhere? i personally had to rebuild mplayer from source based on the instrctions from live.com or you can ask someone for a mplayer binary .. as mplayer is one big beast .. newman says that he used the rpm from atrpm but they did not work for me. where is atrpm? we're replaying julliard's talk; do folks see it? I managed to update my mplayer with the LIVE.COM stuff, but now it complains about not finding codecs or something. :-/ <-- ace_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) who was that then? i saw something from an aircraft i think yeah, that's boaz's stuff, right before julliard's talk Well, I've closed the firewall and I now just get connecting... anyone got sound? no stream now heard a little bit of sound .. Can you put the test stream up? i've got video back in 15 mins What are you using? hmm... Can't you provide a http stream? can't start playback now... oh well Can you please put a http stream up? its probably just too much to do now, they are busy with other things ;-) winehq seems to be down again I've got okish video but no audio. Running qt6.3 on winxp hmm JasonEdm: Have you got it working on linux in any way? maybe too much traffic to allow connections. my stream got cut off and can't seem to reconnect no, my linux box doesnt have internet access at the moment due to a hardware failure :-( winehq seems to be down. JasonEdm: My windows box is down for the same reason :( BTW can someone confirm if winehq is down? works here here too <-- Ivan has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.4") nope, no matter what I do I can get video but no sound...! oh well, off for some food too - back later --> Vitaliy (~chatzilla@65.100.132.149) has joined #wineconf Ivan: winehq is up, afaict people watching the stream? mplayer is jsut sitting at "starting playback" it appears to have connected but can't start now for some reason I still have problmes, either with mplayer, which I set up today, or with the stream I had just a couple of frames QT 6.5 here just sits there with a logo image... test stream doesn't work either cmorgan: same thing here. Same status here. UweB: i thought i'd see you on here ;-) Much daytime work ok try again test still isn't working stream is now <[ericP]> got streaming (AJ speaking, but sound is awful) yeah we think that it is cutting out the background noise and AJ voice also. --> ajptx (~ajp@cs6669206-220.austin.rr.com) has joined #wineconf we improved the audio later in the recording. maybe just fast foward to then? ;-) No I get pictures i've got audio and piccies now :-) Sound's still pretty awful. yes, audio and pictures but its nearly impossible to follow all of what is doing on ;-) * nyef gives up. He's had no sign of a working stream (even the test stream) all day. nyef: the stream now works for me any of you had this error 11001 or server not found? nope ajptx: did the test stream work? I get that same message with both cmorgan: I get a QT logo from the QT player on windows, I get codec not found and signal 11 messages from mplayer. Either way, not encouraging. aricstewart: how long into the recording was the audio fix? ;-) with QT, what is the correct thing to put for the streaming settings? i am not sure, i was watching him fidget with the cables and plugin and unplugging. later half i think. ahh alright ;-) --> Tom-W (~Tom@207.144.244.11) has joined #wineconf hard to follow it all .. can get the jist though * nyef just managed to crash the quicktime player. lets try it on windows .. <-- Thunderbird has quit ("Client exiting") anyone got the stream working on windows with quicktime 6.5? oh, i may have a trick.. i seem to remember whnen i was testing under windows last week i had to select something in the right click menu, something like play stream to get it to start properly. --> Thunderbird (~Roderick@sailsup.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf there is no right click menu in quicktime sorry, been and come back. Now when I try to play it, I get nothing and it keeps pausing i reconnected and it works well for me now sound is odd but that apparently was fixed later on, like right now actually can't get any data .. and I'm on windows .. using qt 6.4 cmorgan, sound's still fucked up for me. its better now for me still messed up but can actually hear him now ;-) got it, just as he said I think thats it... <-- Vitaliy has quit (Remote closed the connection) 11001: server not found -- I've never seen it say anything else yeah i think this is about when we started pluging his wireless mic directly into the camera :) is anyone still receiving data? Thunderbird, I am. --> Wierd (wierd@ip68-102-245-12.ks.ok.cox.net) has joined #wineconf hmm for me, I get working data dand video for a while then the audio drops out and never fixes itself i pause it, play and it sorts it out <-- _New_ has quit () i think we are pretty unimpressed with the darwin broadcast server... yes... seems fine here under mplayer pauses every so often but not for very long why not try the helix server? (for use with realplayer ..) Or simply put each of the presentations/sessions as a separate video file which can be downloaded. really strange my qt can't receive anything .. the audio is probably the most important part, more so than smooth video its too bad it is not all that clear mine just keeps dropping every 15-30 secs anyway guess we'll all have to attend in person next year (audio drops, not video) hmm.. I adjusted the QT plugin settings to increase the audio FIFO pumped it from 180ms to 300ms seems a 'little' more stable googling for this server not found thing, it seems that some mac and PC people get it too, and no one has the slightest idea why <-- RShearman has quit (Remote closed the connection) (like for accessing other random streams) lets try it with real10 on windows. . (helix based) how do u configure the buffer size in qt? The browser plugin? perhaps it is related to the connection type you choose on the bottom right, there is a downpointing arrow. click it, and choose preferences. then in the dropdown, choose 'audio preferences' which qt u using - not on mine! <-- UweB has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) QT6 This is in the browser plugin, isn't it? --> UweB (~bon@p5081649B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #WineConf no, I was running qtplayer yeah- the stand alone player doesnt give the option to configure the FIFO Back again. Playing with mplayer -vo dga crashed... What url u using? http://www.winehq.org/wineconf/stream.html dga needs root permissions .. use the xv backend --> RShearman (~Rob@cpc1-warw1-6-0-cust105.brhm.cable.ntl.com) has joined #wineconf i agree with shachar on the patch issues patch issues? it is hard to know whether a patch was dropped or missed the kernel has a patch management system now right? one that resubmits patches if they haven't been responded to <-- Wierd (wierd@ip68-102-245-12.ks.ok.cox.net) has left #wineconf that would probaby be useful looks like the tape ended ok people are returning to start again. we should resume live soon. neat how was the audio at the end? is there a plan to put the slides(if there are any) up on a website? it wasn't bad was hard to hear people int eh back and was skipping for me every 2 seconds for like 1/4 second or less yeah we got a directional mic to mic the questioning people. <-- RShearman has quit () let me know when u start sending again we will get started with the video again once lunch is over. should be 15min or so. Is there an HTTP stream as well, or is it all RTSP/UDP? --- wineconf has changed the topic to: WineConf '04 - http://www.winehq.org/wineconf/stream.html ok we are starting up. your battery is running low ;-) yeah we are looking for more. <[ericP]> sound is awful changing camera battery it is just background converstation right now so not alot of sound. maybe turn off the cameras background noise filtering? --> Vitaliy (~chatzilla@65.100.132.149) has joined #wineconf we are going to ask the speaker to repeat the questions. ugh, quicktime works great for me just my sound doesn't work in wine look like we are starting. please comment on the audio. wer'e getting ready to start Starting right now :-) cmorgan, how is the audio now? <-- henla464 has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) audio is good here aricstewart: skippy aricstewart: runs, skips, runs etc maybe i can adjust something on my end to buffer more aricstewart, it skips every few seconds.. but when it runs the quality is fine. cool i think we have the mic working then. I get about 0.5 seconds of playing, 10 second gap :( the skipping is with the streaming. can someone who has it working with QT please tell me what ou have on the "streaming settings" page? 'lo Alex BTW :-) --> RShearman (~RShearman@cpc1-warw1-6-0-cust105.brhm.cable.ntl.com) has joined #wineconf is there a way to stream just the audio the audio got a lot better just now what is the two in the bottom? are yeah, the audio has gone very choppy here on and off... Since the audio is the most impotant part its a pain Two in the bottom ? scr.exe (ms scripting_ and MDAR? you can read the board? <-- Thunderbird has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) yeah MDAC Has the mic something like a noise gate. It sounds like the noise gate shuts off when the speaker pauses and then the noise gate takes some seconds to sstart again after the speaker continued he turns around can we stream the video at a lower res (ie less bandwidth), and hopefully the audio can buffer better? i am not sure what we can modify... jwhite set it all up. the problem is he turns around... yeah we loose the mic here. jwhite asks about licensing IE6 trying something new with the mike and then ran out to answer the phone while in mid question can you hear tom now? <_Marcus_> We at SuSE have a 1 Euro penalty for ringing cellphones during meetings.l :) --> henla464 (~lase@f109.ryd.student.liu.se) has joined #wineconf He is still shoppy At least for me UweB, same here. And here and here - makes it almost impossible to understand. Stupid thing is the audio is the useful bit here! too bad you can't just stream audio discussing licensing yeah we wille xplore that during the next break. sorry all. <_Marcus_> you just have to come here <_Marcus_> :) <_Marcus_> is anyone taking full notes? * mike_m thinks we're getting sidetracked... yes, pleanty of sitting room between me and Marcus <_Marcus_> well , there is more to the left of lionel ,) And we will all have a nice CW T-Shirt signed by Alexandre :-) I'd love to.... I would be there if I wasnt going on holiday on Mon! Even the wife didnt mind me paying for it! JasonEdm, bummer next year... JasonEdm: we just have to organise a multimedia summit in Europe (with Christian, Raphael, Eric you and me :-) ) wine-games conf? :-) i'll be in that unhijacking the conversation is fun... --> Thunderbird (~Roderick@sailsup.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf still no luck from windows :( improving our test suite might be a better approach Well, the test suite is more to test single API entry points. You won't test interactions with a test suite. should we expect interactions to break things? i'd imagine in most cases just having each api work is a bit of it "Won't"? Why not? how is the audio? at all usable. it's been my experence that individual api tests cover 90% of the bugs Yeah, but those are the easy bugs to find :-) we have very poor coverage right now I've given up :-( does anyone have enough backlog to have TD's updated flight info? Mandi called to say that she doesn't have his arrival covered. ok I shall now make my second attempt at mplayer i really think the test suite is the way to making wine work well Let's see if I have logging configured on this XChat... aricstewart can't get a stream over here from windows .. Nope, no logging. So I do not have the log from yesterday anymore :-/ didn't he say that he would arrive somewhere in the afternoon? 3pm or near that time? most every patch to wine should add a corresponding patch to the test wuite suite I have logging enabled that's what I seem to recall, but I don't have details. Yup. Not sure if it's the same time as the flight that got cancelled. Do not remember. only for today's session ...and we're getting close to 3:00... there shouldn't be much plains arriving from europe .. didn't he say that he travelled from Schiphol? (Netherlands) they usually have only a flight or two a day check for a flight from AMS (Amsterdam) From the KLM site, there are two flights. One at 12:50 and the other at 18:40. are you sure he flied with klm? Yup, sure of it. ok He stayed at Amsterdam yesterday evening. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=ONkBX4wuBHA.1592%40tkmsftngp03&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dloadlibrary%2Blocal%2Bdll%2Boverride%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch that discusses the .local file * puk is happy to NOT have choosen KLM singapore airlines is great :) No more stream here... BBrox: check the NWA website I don't like klm that much ... (although it is Dutch) sky_: yeah, but we are not sure he got the same flight today than the one planned for him yesterday. Maybe he got a seat in the flight before. yes, or they could fly him through another gateway city there aren't that many trans-atlantic flights but maybe ;-) Why does mplayer tell on startup : "This stream is non-cacheable" ? cmorgan: There are tons of trans-Atlantic flights :-) BBrox: maybe a dozen a day? two dozen? but not that many to minnesota, right? at least two dozen cmorgan: there are at least 4 Paris => Atlanta flight operated by Delta. travelling to japan it was funny how few there were a day I would guess more than that was he at a direct connection to MS? Thunderbird: originally yes cmorgan: so well, add this all the AirFrance flights to most major US cities, and just from Paris, you have two dozens per day. yeah so he should be able to get over here ;-) uWEb: nO STREAM AT THE MO Ooops - caps lock :-( all I can find in the log is that he was coming in at 4:30 4:30 ? This does not correspond to any KLM flight I saw on the KLM web-site :-/ BBrox: check natwest northwest you mean? No more streaming! What happened? JasonEdm: mucking round with the streaming or perhaps martinair (a daughter of klm) detours from microsoft research also can override libraries, or individual functions in libraries Well, the Amsterdam => Minneapolis flight is operated by KLM for Northwest. er, northwest http://research.microsoft.com/sn/detours/ wait a second .. bbrox you have an idea when the flight left? I could check when it left from schiphol yes, but they could fly him over another gateway and when it arrived (can do that using dutch television) or perhaps you have the flight code? (oops you haven't ..) we tried to change mics.. but failed... playing with the camera We have the one of the original flight, not the one from today. ok, back online shachar is starting his presentation did he tell if he say he had a morning flight from amsterdam? nyef: we've been talking with Chris Hertel from Samba about midl and widl mike_m, Still no stream for me. Ormod: it should be going No audio here. the video is getting to the computer that is encoding the scream at least... having trouble starting the stream here we lowered the video quality to try to improve sound. ok we just paused the recording. shachar : internationalization is supporting writing different scripts on the screen (thanks mike) localization is adding the various scripts shachar is talking about i18n not localization (he's rebooting his laptop because he's having a problem with the X server) --> Dave2 (~dave@teppic.demon.co.uk) has joined #wineconf can't start stream (ok without sound) stream is not going now. camera is paused. Hmm... What's the current time in Wineconfland? 2:20 pm ah shachar is starting again mike_m: What was that about midl and widl? nyef: samba is implementing an IDL parser too maybe you guys can work together ;-) but they're concentrating on generating proxies cmorgan: yes, we talked about that Ahh... although that isn't the spirit of open source ;-) typically the room filling ego's prevent such things from occuring ;-) Okay, so they aren't doing anything with type libraries yet, right? nyef: well, not much :) <-- shachar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) slides 2: MBCS: Multi byte characters set * use primarily for CJK - Chinese Japanese and Korea ok, stream people. any luck? better audio? no audio :-( * if first byte is in the usual ascii range, character is ascii no audio at all? cmorgan? same? aricstewart: can't start playing here next slide Traditional MBCS problems same here - it goes without audio aricstewart: maybe too much traffic ? * in DOS mode - display is only 80 bytes wide Vitaliy: starts for you if you disable the audio? * solution - dbcs are twice as wide Still nothing at all on the stream here yes Vitaliy: what option is that? (mplayer 1.0pre2) * cannot random access string * cannot even reverse scan * when application is not mbcs aware, second byte causes trouble * example - first byte is an aggregrate, second byte is '\' (interferes with directory parsing) no audio at all, even if I pause and restart it (ie nicely buffered for a few secs) aricstewart: stream works but only if audio is disabled. next slide: ok so our attempts caused things to become worse. :-( * the (attempted) solution Building audio filter chain for 16000Hz/1ch/16bit -> 16000Hz/2ch/16bit... Starting playback... But it isn't playing anything * 16 bits ought to be enough yeah, it sits there for me too ;-) * ucs-4 - 32 bit characters * utf-16 - 16 or 32 bits per char Oh yeah I can see w/out audio * utf-8 - 8, 16, 24, 32 bts per char * while the utf encodings are multibyte per character, they do allow backward scanning * still no random access though --> stegefin (~stegefin@m57.net81-64-140.noos.fr) has joined #wineconf --> gav_mac (~gavriels@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf hi gav_mac :) <-- UweB has quit ("epic+tkirc2") --> dimi (~dpaun@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf hey hey ok, so with mplayer I get Building audio filter chain for 16000Hz/1ch/16bit -> 48000Hz/2ch/16bit... Starting playback... and then nothing --> UweB (bon@p5081649B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #WineConf is that at least the same as someone else now? :) same here That's better than I get. ajptx: yep well it's hard to say if it's better as it doesn't work -- but no one else had my QT error ajptx: Yup, me and cmorgan I know mplayer isn't totally hosed as I can play the quicktime samples from disk ajptx: Your mplayer doesn't catch signal 11. Therefore you've got better results than I do. (the ones from installing quicktime that is) new slide: windows solution - word in unicode * for windows nt and up, all functions are unicode Mplayer no freezes with "Starting playback..." when starting. Does mplayer work for others? Nope same result here Same with ajptx, cmorgan and I the "legacy" interfaces cal the new ones * this elimates most (not all) of the Intl. problems UweB: if you disable sound it works. but since sound is 98% of the presentation it dosen't make much sense to do so ;-) * windows started out too early - uses 16bit unicode. when utf-16 came along, aggregrates had to be used windows 9x has MSLU (unicows) cmorgan: what did you do to disable sound? I tried null audio output and got same result "the thing (unicows) is a hack!" ajptx: add the -ao option, like -ao aslkjfasljkf forced to ship with application... never in windows/system -ao none it looks for the output plugin aslkasljkf and fails ;-) yeah or that too Is the proper way ;) unicows applications are dodgy - "things won't work" hey that worked! -- null was too proper 'cept I used -ao screwyou Please notify when sound is supposed to work again shachar submitted unicows to wine... alexandre accepted it with a "small" rewrite ;) new slide: * Arabic, Persian, Hebrew and Yiddish are written as a rule, from right to left * numbers and quoted latin characters are written from left to right, even if in the middle of RTL runs * the resulting text is called "Bidi" ... new slide; already heard something about td's arrival? Who is "td" * visual order - the sequence by which the characters should be displayed on screen (usually specified from left to right). Mike Hearn * logical order - the order by which the characters wouldhave been said if no writing was to take place next slide: * 28 steps to convert logical ordered string to visual to Minneapolis, right? * has about 3 versions 28 steps? there are 4 flights to that place As in, "From a File to a Process, in 28 Easy Steps"? err, seem to be 2 after all. .. one left at 10:35 AM (GMT+1) it is the kl6041 or nw0041 and one at 16:45 kl6055 nw0065 * ajptx has a plan * mike_m returns any of you ever used a free VOIP program called TeamSpeak? it's crossplatform and I've had good luck with it in the past nyef: he meant 28 steps to go from a string of text in memory to a bidi string on the screen ajptx: yup it's not that hard to set up, and maybe would work better for sending out the audio...... mike_m: I was really commenting on it being 28 steps in both places, and was wondering if it were deliberate or a coincidence. nyef: dunno... nyef: have you heard of "muddle" ? I only heard about 'muggle' :-) I've heard of a couple things by that name, which one do you mean? nyef: something that generates idl from a typelib apparently No, that's a new one by me. http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~matthewc/muddle/ That's going to be a lossy translation, though, as there are things that you can express in a typelib that you can't in idl. What's that thing which just came up on the display? nyef: yeah... might be kind of interesting and helpful for debugging for you Hunh. The web page says that it's more for executables with the embedded stubs... sounds like they want to say "typelib" but they don't know how Should the audio stream work now? UweB: yep ooh hmm still not working for me I like those answers like "yep" , They can mean anything .... * BBrox put his first 4 slides on http://bbrox.org/wine_gaming.sxi (need OO to open it) It is supposed to work <-- [ericP] has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/20030630]") UweB: not working for me either After that, wondering what to speak about (ie how DirectX works (COM stuff, objects, ...) or how it works in Wine or what to do in the future or ...) UweB: same for me Looks more like it's parsing NDR marshalling instructions. BBrox: would like to know how we handle all of the different versions of directX how we can reuse code nyef: ah, ok It's -very- untypelibish code. or how we do reuse code For the moment, we mostly don't do any reuse. At least not between D3D1/7 and D3D8/9 Is nobody moving, or is it frozen? nyef: ah, ok... yeah, it's something different from what i imagined Ah, nobody was moving nm * nyef wishes he could get the last 13 bytes of difference on stdole2.tlb correct without using a binary patch. :-/ cmorgan: are you looking at the .inf scripts for installation? nyef: impressive :) dimi: if i knew wht needed to be done i would be mike_m: Which, that I can't, or that it's only 13 bytes? dimi: alexandre said he wasn't sure how we were going to handle the default config issues. i assume thats what you mean hmm the stream's frozen cmorgan: I was just talking to Alexandre, and we identified that one as one of the important outstaning issues. He was hoping you're looking into it dimi: if you guys come up with a solution, i thought i heard one in alexandres keynote speech, then yes, i'll be working to get wine to create its default configs and fake_windows drive if none are present nyef: that it's only 13 bytes Failed to get a SDP description from URL "rtsp://wine.codeweavers.com/wineconf.sdp": cannot handle DESCRIBE response: RTSP/1.0 404 Not Found dimi: the inf file that will fill in the stuff taht the dll registers don't handle? oooh stream working for me with audio now cmorgan: I guess. The big problem is that if we don't have the scripts, we can't say if the current Setup API we have is good enough dimi: who calls the regsrv32 for the dlls? would we just add registry key adding functions in the dll register functions? if i knew a little more i'd be looking into it more I tried doing stdole32, but it's in SLTG format, and I'm nowhere near familiar enough with it to try and minimize the change... It did come out to the same filesize, though... sweet I got audio too! cmorgan: so we need to get some scripts done, and see what we actually need out of the Setup API Audio is working again!! dimi: why would we think the setup api isn't good enough? aren't all we doing is adding registry entries? At least the stream is there again, cmorgan: the API is OK :), but we don't know if our _implementation_ is OK The US accents... They are too much! dimi: so we haven't tested the setup api against actual inf files? ;-) uhh cmorgan: so if we wait too much with this stuff, we run the risk of not having a usable implementation when we need one gone again? cut off for me yeah same here Yes, gone again! cmorgan: we did, but we can't be sure we have implemenented all featured that _we_ need dimi: what would this inf file do? hold on I guess it will have to install reg dimi: so it would run regapi winedefault.reg for now? to be honest I don't really know, this is Alexandre's idea :) dimi: or would we want that stuff moved into the dll register calls first? Let me try to get Alexandre in here dimi: becuase you are correct, i've got great interest in fixing this stuff up due to the time i spend helping people do it by hand here on irc ;-) <-- stegefin has quit ("Got to go... ++") UweB: yeah, no stream now :-( The stream seems to be there, there's no 404 But it's not doing anything yeah mine just sits there stream WE HAVE SIGNAL or I do at least --> m-f (AxelF@p5085E40A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #wineconf hold on a few minutes chris dimi: of course nobody's there though, and it sounds like there's a driller there ooh person and no person audio sorted out Yeah, I hear the test. *cough* neato stream is working ;-) bbrox: Whats oo (to open it)? sorry - went away for a bit openoffice.org figures we get it working, and now we are on a break for the next 30 min. ah... Dont support you could save it in word or lotus formats :-) we could play back some old footage. If anyone wants to see it. Yay, reruns <-- jasfilb_away has quit () cool, I can see and hear the chaos between talks! aricstewart! can you have Joe put the Alexander keynote tape in. should I hear anything at the moment? yes I hear lots of voices Nothing important But audio oh - came and went and came and went and .... And the picture is actually working Just nobody's there ATM audio. cool And I've lost audio again... heh and picture lost video here yup ok we are working to try to fix it. heh I guess this is harder than it looks :) yah. I (jer white) feel like a fool. I swore after wineconf that I would only do audio, and a conf call service would be better, imo. audio and webslides are adequate or rather that would be MORE than enough thats what i meant yup. that was the original plan. not sure why I let myself get carried away with this... I think it just seemed so promising having video is very neat not necessary to do so live though ;-) Yeah Good to comment on, but ultimately looks like hard work oho stream again *ooh oh yes! a bit of reverb cmorgan: dude! dimi: hey ;-) heh, tape rewinding? I've talked to Alexandre --> jil (~juan@dhcp180.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf he said the the following: 1. register the DLLs 2. move (the rest of winedefault.reg) to the .inf script --> Thunderbird_ (~roderick@sailsup.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf 3. create the Windows dir structure dimi: wine would create the windows dir structure at startup if it detects none is present? so, apprently, what happens is that currently 90% of winedefault.reg is made up of reg entries that DLLs know how to register themselves dimi: or you mean those three things are what the info file does? yes, it's done in the .inf files stream stopped dimi: yes, he mentioned that most go into dlls, whats left has to go somewhere else special ;-) no <-- _Marcus_ has quit ("Lost terminal") dang it seems like whenever someone stands in front of the camera the stream stops :| pause and unpause so, the thing is that that stuff is already in the DLLs but nobody registers them, so the code doesn't get invoked! dimi: seriously? you know of an example? so we just statically place those reg keys into winedefault.reg ok, -cache 8192 -ao sdl really sped up my audio so, once we have a .inf script to register the DLLs, we can simply delete 90% of the stuff in winedefault.reg That's a point I forgot -ao alsa9 dimi: alright. so 1 and 2 seem pretty easy the rest of 10% of keys from winedefault.reg need to be converted to the .inf syntax and placed in the .inf script dimi: and i suppose we call this inf from wineinstall? so the result is we can simply delete winedefault.reg cmorgan: yes, that's correct dimi: did he say anything about a default config and default fake window directory? i'd like to have that stuff setup correctly for users rather than have hacks like the rpm packages do to the wine source that do this yes, that was point (3) packages won't have wineinstall should they? so, let me review the process for you does someone have the link to lionel's slides left? <-- m-f (AxelF@p5085E40A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left #wineconf so, the user does: configure && make depend && make install then, they somehow (say through wineinstall or such) invoke the .inf script http://bbrox.org/wine_gaming.sxi <-- Vitaliy has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.45 [Mozilla rv:1.6a/1]") thanks (maybe we do a "make config" or somesuch) now this step invokes the .inf script ajptx are you hearing any sound right now? can make install run the script or at least print out a message telling them what to run? can anyone convert it to ms office for me - i dont have oo just now the script will then do the 3 steps: Thunderbird: yeah i got sound 1. register all DLLs 2. add the rest of reg entries to the registry hmm 3. create the dir structure for a fake windows install having the speakers off, helps ofcourse ;) heh What's going on right now? dimi: what about rpm packages? that's a different story dimi: what if a user blows away ~/.wine do we just recreate it? the .rpm packages should invoke the .inf script as well on install dimi: i think it would be nice to create stuff for the user if it wasn't there playig right now is the second tape from this morning. i think it is the wine 1.0 presentaion yes how is the audio? ah dimi: so we'd have to include the .inf file right? Working for me it is a little laggy for the rest it works hmmm, what about wine itself running the script if ~/.wine is missing??? ok but it is actually understandable? Drops out for a bit ajptx: it won't be a script, it will be an inf file --> _Marcus_ (~marcus@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf Generally is, yes include it where? dimi: as a part of the install yes, of course <-- Thunderbird has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Ah, it's the whole thing lagging dimi: /usr/local/share/wine or something which is odd dimi: like i was proposing to do with winedefault.reg and the default config files ;-) Paused and unpaused, no lagging now yes, we have to find a home for it I say as it starts to lag <-- Thunderbird_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) --> crazney (~crazney@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf dimi: would we check in the wine binary at startup for missing config files? $prefix/share/wine sounds OK I guess --> villager (ovehk@wirth.ping.uio.no) has joined #wineconf no, that's a different story dimi: as opposed to the wineserver [16:33] _Marcus_: can you tell someone that the qt stream is broken? [16:33] just keeps looping over and over trying to start dimi: ideas on that then? ;-) Is this now a life stream? i'm guessing its supposed to be.. http://www.winehq.com/wineconf/stream.html cmorgan: I think that's a different problem altogeter UweB: it's a recording I think cmorgan: let's first do the script to do what Alexandre wants --> shachar (~sun@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf dimi: i think so as well, but i'd like to nail that down as well no, this is playback from this morning cmorgan: and we'll solve a lot of problems: Alexander's keynote 1. we get rid of winedefault.reg 2. we test the self-registration code well i don't think you could call it a stream then.. ah well But if the recording has the intermitted sound, it not sthe streaming failing, but the recording... 3. we test that we have the right implementation for Setup API this we'll get us 90% to the goal dimi: yep. sounds like you guys came up with something ;-) once we have that, we can reasses what else needs to be done Isn't the SetupApi one off these big undocumented things. the streaming doesn't quite seem to work for me :) dimiL that sounds like a good plan -- it's really hard helping people in IRC when no 2 of them start from the same place dimi: i'll get right to work on that actually indeed SetupAoi also appears in the context of hardware dimi: trying to find the existing register code you mentioned very cool I keep getting 1 second of sound and video, then 10 seconds of nothing, 1 second of sound of video, 10 seconds of nothing, etc cmorgan: it seems that this is a key piece of work for 0.9, one of the top 5 issues grr i just don't get anything.. quicktime tries to load.. counts down from 10, then starts again dimi: i can't see it being that difficult either cmorgan: so the sooner we nail it, the better saying 'waiting for media' --> bcrt2k (~bcrt2k@HSE-Toronto-ppp116581.sympatico.ca) has joined #wineconf cmorgan: indeed, so much more reason to get it over with :) Testing one two is heard. crazney: I tried quicktime ever since the test stream and finally gave up 1/2 hour ago and compiled mplayer dimi: and the default config creation will reduce the load due to people creating config files by hand crazney: why don't you use mplayer? --> Thunderbird (~roderick@sailsup.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf hi back dimi: its amazing how many people install wine and simply have NO config files at all cmorgan: right, among a lot of other good things But is't not long enough provoke the intermitting sound. villager: well, its a quicktime stream.. why should i have to? crazney: so that you don't have to use wine to see it? dimi: alright, thanks for talking to him. i was mostly just waiting for something concrete ;-) step by step I found for getting everything you need for RTSP stream to work with mplayer http://warriors.eecs.umich.edu/endhost/instlinux.html villager: i'm on my mac ajptx: It says on the wineconf page... cmorgan: way cool -- I'll let AJ know that you're working on it. haha sound is good niow .. yo yo Christian (if you are here...) - Worked perfectly, thnx Sound test is shoppy now and volume very high cmorgan: I have to go talk to fgouget, I see you guys in a few minutes but better than before (atleast for me) Yeah choppy before I could barely hear it (and my volume wasn't low) Can you just stream audio and nothing else? I can hear what they're saying, just choppy... (as a test) Jason, I'm here. I'm happy that it works... audio gone and back alsa-play: xrun of at least 54.716 msecs. resetting stream 0.0% 424 0 0% etc Dave2: I could not even get that version of QT to play it Battery low! hahah Dave: Run mplayer with -ao sdl even when you have Alsa hmm yeah that is helping a lot Trying now isn't it best to fix video before worrying about audio? villager: video's fine no it's not Correction: fine for me But the battery's low --> [Shad0w] (~shad0w@c-c41d72d5.019-165-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #wineconf Ove: Audio is more important to follow the discussion... last wineconf the video didn't help that much .. well, perhaps if you have the slides .. but when the audio stops because the video stops, it's probably easiest to fix video first the chance of having good video is very very small look at tapes from conferences, they often times are quite difficult to see I'm just waiting for the cam to turn off... audio is easier, bandwidth wise ;-) how would I get just audio, then? I prefer to have high quality audio .. I have bandwidth enough how much bandwidth does the stream take up, anyway? Battery REALLY low now so how do I turn off video? well we'll have no video OR audio soon no idea * Dave2 waves randomly at people at Wineconf with a "Plug in the camera"-engraved hand hah <-- jil has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) we are about to lose the stream for a while..... * Dave2 hopes that laptop has #wineconf on it :P as if there was really a stream to watch anyway break... switching battery thanks for seeing it. excellent yay yay, full battery dimi: i'm not finding the code that supposably will create the default registry entries But still choppy sound... argh loud Argh! and still 10 seconds of no video and no audio between each second of those --> jil (~juan@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf or something hmm villager: what software you using and what connection? mplayer connection? what kind of internet connection? did you already tried the tweaks ajptx proposed? 10Mbit ethernet connected to a router with a 1024Kbps ADSL --> ace (~ace@179.ppp132.rsd.worldonline.se) has joined #wineconf what tweaks? -cache 8192 -ao sdl These tweaks don't help with the choppy sound for me. does -cache work? it says "this stream is non-cacheable" Same here -cache makes no difference... I also wonder why the stream is tagged "non-cacheable" maybe it did nothing, but I tried both of those at the same time in response to something i read..... (on this stream) and it helped i did not experiment further Perhaps some setup is wrong? ajptx: The "Your computer is TOO SLOW YOU IDIOT" message from mplayer? Some setup in St. Paul... heh yeah ************************************************ **** Your system is too SLOW to play this! **** ************************************************ yeah Woo, my Athlon XP 2600+ is too slow to play a simple stream Aric: Can you comment why the stream is tagged "non-cacheable" its a 128x64 pixel stream, 10fps with low quality audio or somethign ;-) but yeah, i got a kick out of that error msg from mplayer have seen that error too ;) Run mplayer on the earth simulator Your system is too SLOW to play this! should it matter that the router is NAT-ing when I use that rtsp-over-tcp thing? villager: Worksfor me with NAT hey villager fwiw its improved a lot for me (I'll regret saying that if it dies) heh I guess that a "non chachable" stream will allways be choppy when transmitted via IP... audio gone hey crazney damn you JasonEdm ;) kinda works for me too except that I only get a second of stream every minute or something still audio over here yeah just came back mike_m: hi why did they choose to use apple stuff? and not for example real stuff? (partly opensourced helix ..) Well, what else is there really? Real....*shudder* Ove: For me it is "only" choppy, with some seconds playing and some few seconds paused. They're using rtsp anyway ;) it atleast has a real linux client .. an opensource (helix) and closed one (realone/realplayer) Why does the pic say "paused" anyway? Can anybody in St. Paul comment why the stream is marked "non-cacheable"? heh ARGH, GET IT AWAY! why does audio go bad after someone says "testing 1 2"? I have to run out for a bit -- catch you all later cya <-- ajptx has quit ("back in a while") ok sorry i was away. can someone check the stream? yep It just died for me Stopped it stopped just a moment for me still stopped ;-) it still says non-cacheable Back at the keyboard. running again it should be broadcasting. bad audio... gav_mac is about to take the stage jwhite is advertising the Ice Palace in St, Paul cmorgan: more news from AJ heeh audios fine here...! JasonEdm: just discussed a bit with AJ about our visual / GL issues. sorry guys ok, whats his view? cmorgan: so, the .inf script will be invoked from wineboot Aric: can you at least switch of the camera insert perhaps we all should just wait for the event to be over and download and watch the recorded streams after that <-- _Marcus_ has quit (Nick collision from services.) switch of hte camera insert? i dont understand... sorry yeah --> gmt (~greg@adsl-65-43-252-173.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) has joined #wineconf dimi: uncondititionally? OSD cmorgan: and we'll need to make sure that packages (.rpms, etc.) arange in such fashion so that wineboot gets invoked on login by users --> _Marcus_ (~marcus@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> ivanleo (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf mike_m: hey, hows tricks? dimi: on login? Like battery, status, all that stuff which camcorders stick on the video for some reason Ove: The recorded stream of Alexandre's opening also seems to be choppy... yeah we are trying to get read of this. I knew I'd regret saying that cmorgan: yes, on login err rid of that. hello peeps mike_m: is gav up? we dont know what happeend to cause it to start up but it will not go away. gav is up. http://www.transgaming.com/papers/shmserver.html dimi: ahh. is that normal for apps to do? crazney: yes gav is up JasonEdm: basically, he may back the change for the 'one Windows window == one X window' Audio still dodgy... he's presenting the above URL No the sound has echo additional to being choppy cmorgan: not unconditionally, only if we haven't run it before UweB: Yeah, same here specifically the sleep example Slight reverb JasonEdm: which only lets us use (for non-full screen applications) the PBuffer option... well we increaed to 2 mics so we can mic the qquestions. BBrox, are you talking about one desktop for all wine apps when in windowed mode? cmorgan: no, we're not sure how we'll achive that, it's for packagers to figure out :) so you may be hearing the two mics bcrt2k: no, it's another issue. dimi: why not have wine check when it starts up? oh okay cmorgan: that's another way, but it's too expensive / inefficiant so we are stuck with the visual on creation time? JasonEdm: if we use PBuffers, not as we can always re-create the PBuffer. Aric: Di you notice that the stream is marked "non-chachable"? That me be the reason why it is choppy dimi: we couldn't have the wine client keep track of whether it was run yet or not? maybe ask the wineserver? JasonEdm: for full screen apps, yeah. But AJ plans to write some code to replace one window by another dynamically. I've spent hours and hours failing dismally with pbuffers :-( (so we can piggy-back on this code for our uses) <_Marcus_> /cl i did not notice, jnewman is the broadcasting guy and i cant really talk to him until breaks. JasonEdm: BTW, what do you think of my slides :-) ? ok, so we can replace the visual. Whats the diff between full screen and windowed wrt to the x window cmorgan: problem is that startup time is too big already, we need move time out of wine into wineboot cmorgan: brb dimi: no matter to me i guess ;-) gav is running a demo "miles"? <-- wineconf has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) miles is an audio api is it any interesting demo? lots of games use it villager: i think its alice. demoing a game bbrox: fine - I dont know what else to say to be honest. FYI I have today started looking at hw shaders using the ARB_vertex_program stuff JasonEdm: did you synchronise with Raphael on this ? Or did he completely fell out of the net :-) ? fps = 50 no, he's vanished recently wineserver takes 42% of cpu maybe transgaming assassinated him? He must have found a girlfriend :-) heh gav_mac is starting the shmserver wineserver (same game) wonder if it'll crash? :) cmorgan: right, it doesn't really matter to you, this stuff is up for debate, but we need the .inf script first so we can invoke it from whereever :) crazney: so far so good ;) BBrox: :-) dimi: is there a way to run things from an inf file? dimi: ie, could we run regsrv32 from the inf file? fps = ~95fps <-- Dave2 (~dave@teppic.demon.co.uk) has left #wineconf ("Client exiting") cmorgan: I don't know, I'm not that familiar with .inf scripts wine = 99% of cpu, wineserver = 0 its a shame as his work on the shared d3d code would have made life easier, but has also halted future work on d3d9 waiting on it! dimi: i can't find anything about doing that. lots of stuff about copying files and registry entries ;-) cmorgan: why do you need to run stuff> JasonEdm: I think we can do as if he did not do anything... We can always re-adapt his code once he cames back. dimi: register the dlls? cmorgan: you should be able to do that JasonEdm: anyway, the day I buy a new card, I will try to work on D3D8/9 too :-) I wish I could hear this presentation :-( I can see it ok! if the setup engine that reads the .inf file can invoke programs, then it shouldn't be any problems? I need a new card too - I only have a geforce1 ouch * BBrox has a TNT2U :-) * mike_m wonders what "AHHHHH possible callback problems" means .... ;) No wonder the games are all slow! :-) villager: i've little idea about thist stuff yet. who runs a inf file? ;-) mike_m: did it crash? cmorgan: perhaps MSI these days --> peteH__ (~peter@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf peteH__: * mike_m wonders what "AHHHHH possible callback problems" means .... ;) Is the stream currently up? is that new mac build of wine fully functional? Its up, but audio is choppy and has echo crazney: no, it didn't crash oh bbrox: One question I have thought about and it might be asking is whether they considered an option of fastbound type application, ie NO server calls, just branch to the code which would have been executed but only support the single process is gav showing his presentation on a mac or pc ? (well at least it seemed to work righ) <_Marcus_> pc I always wondered if that would buy a huge benefit immediately for single process games imo wine running on different platforms is pretty important to the progression of linux as a whole villager: wine doesn't have a native msi program does it? villarer: no, but you can use the M$ one. cmorgan think mike_m is working on that a bit now .. with his msi.dll .. cmorgan: haven't followed wine progress much for a while, but I'm not aware of one (first steps to an installer I think) out of curiousity does the boom mic help with audio on the questions? mike_m: are you working on a msi installer program? ;-) * mike_m is working on MSI imagine, plugging in your usb keyboard and mouse into your modded ps3, installing linux, and wine, and using it as a desktop machine :) cmorgan: you did not remember the broken flex / yacc stuff in MSI :-) ? i recall in the dll i have code to write the database on this laptop but how, under wine, would i go about running an inf file? next is to write a regression test that puts the database layer through it's paces aricstewart: perhaps we could tell if we could hear more than scattered fragments of audio? cmorgan: that is done thru setupx/setupapi mike_m: so how would i go about running an inf file? ;-) tomorrow i will see if we can put together a non video shoutcast server or something.... * mike_m is paying attention to wineserver discussion --> ulrich_ (~ulrich@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf JasonEdm: as for your first question, the difference between full-screen and non-full screen is that in the case of full screen, you HAVE the X window == Windows window case (so you can directly bind to the X window) It's a pitty to loose Alexandre's answers with that choppy sound :-( A helix server would have been great, it does rtsp, http, it's open source, it would work with realplayer... aricstewart: let us know if you make the stream cacheable UweB, He said that there is willingness to have a kernel module to add generic capabilities that will allow faster stuff and trying to get that into the vanilla kernel UweB: can you even hear the questions? Linux kernel? yes Ove: As told, sound is ther for me, but choppy. So I can follow to some extend... if people looked at wine-kernel some months ago it would have been in 2.6x now ;) no it wouldn't linus was willing to add some sort of extension .. I would say a year ago :) oh well ;) is gav still speaking or has a new presentation started? No, still Gav (asking AJ about if it ever would be included in Wine) what was the outcome? aj : "the plan is once i reject your shm server i will work on the kernel" quote/unquote what conditions until the shm server gets in? haha aj : "it's a design issue" "it changes the design of the server" and a kernel hack doesn't? aj wants the server to be multiuser one day that won't be portable to freebsd crazney: well, i think he does't want a hack villager: yes, maybe not or to any other OS or solaris, or whatever else it would be nice to improve performance though cmorgan: shm server would be just as good villager: in those cases, use the plain Wineserver :-) cmorgan: tell me about it... it would be a bit of a problem for binary packages or macosx so what does alexandre want to do instead? BBrox: then you get shit performance fix the root problem via a kernel module? BBrox: the point is to improve performance on all platforms wine can run on tell aj he is nuts :) aj : "you can't debug anything with shared memory server" I dont care how performance improves, but games highlight bad perfomance crazney: as if I care about closed source systems like Solaris :-) BBrox: fbsd, darwin, etc? then add a way to use both wine servers .. as an option BBrox: and you may not care.. but.. what is gav saying about it? so you can switch between both crazney: well, if they are OpenSource, they can code it themselves :-) great, reimplement it for each os - good idea...... crazney: if not, it's their problem having bad performance. crazney: gav says he's still going to work on it what was ajs final opinion on it? well of course we are, its a better solution :) maybe things can be fixed via help from the kenel though in which case that should be fine it covers most of the users aj : "the truth is that part of the problem is that you guys are doing games, and wine is not really doing games" Thunderbird: you pretty much already can in the origin design. what is aj's answer to that option of providing two servers? But I think that quote sums it up. Aren't those FUTEXES from 2.6 something usefull for the wine server? aj : "and when wine really does games then we're going to run into that problem" Futexes aren't really all that useful. hmmm Blocking happens on pipes. And you still have to swap between process etc. wine is 'starting' to run games... and performance is a blocker futexes would help if you were using sysv semaphores or something. JasonEdm: ahh, hear that, wine doesn't do games - you may aswell stop now :) <-- ace has quit (Nick collision from services.) BBrox: ^ :) JasonEdm: yeah, but did you measure it up to the WineServer ? JasonEdm: *I* certainly cannot tell where the bottleneck is :-) nope - didnt the profiling patch get rejected? atleast it is a bottleneck (as for Alice, it's using my damn code, not TG's one :-) ) gav: "aj - did you experiment with signals?" what is aj saying? aj = "yes... " * BBrox always find it fun Gav making demos with an OpenGL game :-) aj wants a special system call that doesn't context switch how would that work? <_Marcus_> :) BBrox: he did a demo with max payne last time, didn't he? or that would immediately switch, somethine like CallNamedPipe on windows and age of empires .. villager: no idea. This time it was only Alice. aj : "i've done some experiments using ptrace to signal the server" because it shows that d3d isn't the bottleneck ;) aj : "the problem with ptrace is that you can't use gdb" max payne seems responsive on wine, but fps vs windows? no idea BBrox: but this time his point was probably just wineserver performance, and opengl games show that best since the problem won't be in the d3d->opengl code... aj - "it interferes with debugging" aj - " can have shared memory that is r/o from the client" Debugging and Wine: Two worlds collide :-) gav : "would you accept a shm server that was r/o from the client"? aj - yes <-- ulrich has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) is that alright for gav then? I love the double debugging nature of wine yes, gav seems happy about that ;) wdb and gdb mike_m: good good. yes, i think good :) <-- vizzini has quit ("[BX] Hrm... I wonder if I paid this month's electr...EOF From client") almost breakup time ... so alexandre has accepted the wineserver ? we're going to meet in st paul at 7pm mike_m: so make sure you tell everyone about melbourne 2005 k? ) :) readonly from the client bye all Client side R/O wineserver. <-- shachar has quit ("Leaving") Thunderbird: well, he won't necessarily reject a ro shm server crazney: ok, i'll mention it ;p better than nothing <-- _Marcus_ (~marcus@subnet.codeweavers.com) has left #wineconf not for us (so to update stuff, you do a wineserver call and to get info, you just read shared memory) just as useless pretty much. peteH__: it isnt' enough for you guys? --> Usurp (syl@dyn-81-166-184-46.ppp.tiscali.fr) has joined #wineconf crazney: i mentioned for you hah * Usurp is away: I'm busy everyone rolled their eyes? For Alice, it may not help a lot :-) then add some ifdefs to allow RW too .. I've got the stream up!! hah ha! a bit late crazney: some people said ... ahh too far :) It's seems to be connected with mars, I mean, all these geeks in the same room and you couldn't get anything better than this? anybody want to watch the stream agai? me Will anybody in St. Paul now work to set up the streaming better: Have a chacahable stream, make the ausio non choppy? mike_m: if audio works this time perhaps bbrox: I think we need to get some profiling done. Perhaps we could get it added to the fun projects page - Pick one game and work out why its slower than windows villager: laxdragon is talking about streaming audio tomorrow (only audio) Would be much better - audio only and put the slides on the web too as well as an a/v stream perhaps? The stream framerate isn't very good also make him look into helix .. JasonEdm: yes, i'll try get people to upload their presentations first it might be better .. make people export them to for example pdf .. mike_m: so how to run inf files then? ;-) else you need dozens of different apps to view them .. mike_m: didja hear that you are the object of a senate inquiry? good night JasonEdm: I will speak about profiling tomorrow. <-- Thunderbird has quit ("Client exiting") mike_m: read this: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/01/31/1075340890279.html brill, thnx. FYI I have some patches to get Austerlitz demo running (it was one of the ones someone mentioned on winedevel) Another pointer to mention for games is ones which crash immediately - try supplying the full path + exe, I've hit 2 games now which crash if you dont OK, heading for dinner / tourism / whatever right now (need to find a car :-) ) Ok, c u tomorrow have fun folks crazney: hmmm and if possible put some mpegs of wineconf up somewhere, so we can download them. crazney: looking... its a bit of a read though so you won't get it done before you go to dinner JasonEdm: I know of DungeonKeeper 1 and DungeonKeeper 2 :-) (and also one other game which did not like the fact that I did 'wine ./foo.exe' instead of 'wine foo.exe' :-) ) <-- dimi has quit () crazney: i'll have a look later what's up with the senate inquiry? k, its somewhat of an interesting read as to why you left :) i guess its into why theres is a such a "brain drain" from au though i don't think they use that term JasonEdm, still hacking that other game? <-- muli has quit ("BitchX: its what's for lunch") (its the guy who bothered you about NHL, lol) <-- bad2073 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) <-- [Shad0w] (~shad0w@c-c41d72d5.019-165-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has left #wineconf ("Leaving") A game using IE6 controls to draw menus... That's plain EVIL ! haha i know those guys at EA are LAZY but its not far from working, most things show up in the menu, the music plays, its just that i dont know what im doing :) crazney: well, they're definitely alluding to "brain drain" OK, getting off-line :-) <-- BBrox has quit ("Off-line") <-- huw has quit (Remote closed the connection) mike_m: yeah anyway, talk to you later we're packing stuff up yeah i gotah go too later have fun bye you too Please put mpegs of wineconf up somewhere k yay dinner at my aunts. fun :) <-- mike_m has quit ("Leaving") its 11pm here! avis would work too <-- gmt has quit ("ciao") bit late for dinner might be better than mpegs divx :) whatever is full screen, with sound and can be downloaded will do divx can't be encoded in standard mpeg-2 system streams I think, so avi would be best for that the important thing is that nobody has strange ideas about using todays tapes tomorrow and overwriting todays videos yeah <-- gav_mac has quit ("I like core dumps") <-- puk has quit ("Leaving") Anybody still here? nope The test stream is down, so I can't play about with my configuration:( <-- aricstewart has quit ("Client Exiting") <-- ulrich_ has quit ("Leaving") <-- jil has quit ("Client Exiting") <-- ivanleo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) --> ivanleo (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf <-- bcrt2k has quit (Remote closed the connection) <-- henla464 has quit () <-- Usurp (syl@dyn-81-166-184-46.ppp.tiscali.fr) has left #wineconf ("Client exiting") --> Z_God (~julius@schwartzenberg.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf Bye <-- UweB has quit ("epic+tkirc2") bye <-- JasonEdm has quit () --> filip2307 (xgecko@prahaf-3-98.dialup.vol.cz) has joined #wineconf <-- sky_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) --> bcrt2k (~bcrt2k@HSE-Toronto-ppp116581.sympatico.ca) has joined #wineconf <-- Ormod has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) <-- fgouget has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) --> wirser (~none@66.243.183.124) has joined #wineconf <-- crazney has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) --> Curtis (~Curtis@ip68-107-114-101.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #wineconf --- Curtis is now known as Curtis|out <-- ivanleo has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.4") --> ivanleo (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf <-- filip2307 (xgecko@prahaf-3-98.dialup.vol.cz) has left #wineconf <-- GvG has quit ("Goodnight") <-- ivanleo (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has left #wineconf <-- wirser has quit ("Client Exiting") <-- Tom-W has quit ("Client Exiting") <-- Z_God (~julius@schwartzenberg.xs4all.nl) has left #wineconf <-- bcrt2k (~bcrt2k@HSE-Toronto-ppp116581.sympatico.ca) has left #wineconf ("Leaving") --> phillip (~phillip@rrcs-sw-24-153-226-6.biz.rr.com) has joined #wineconf <-- phillip has quit (Client Quit) --> marv (~ilovekimm@64-251-140-229-dialup-mo.fidnet.com) has joined #wineconf --> kensavoy (~kensavoy@CPE004005ca212b-CM00003985e266.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf <-- kensavoy has quit (Client Quit) --> ajptx (~ajp@cs6669206-220.austin.rr.com) has joined #wineconf --> Tom (~Tom@207.144.244.11) has joined #wineconf <-- Tom has quit (Client Quit) <-- q[acme] has quit ("Lost terminal") <-- Moled has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) --> crazney (~crazney@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf --> Tom (~Tom@207.144.244.11) has joined #wineconf hola * crazney is away: I'm busy <-- nyef has quit ("System shutting down for scheduled maintainance. Back in 8 hours.") --- m-t is now known as m-t|afk <-- crazney has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) <-- Tom has quit ("Client Exiting") --- Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). --> jwhite[gone] (~jwhite@jwhite.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --- Topic for #wineconf is WineConf '04 - http://www.winehq.org/wineconf/stream.html --- Topic for #wineconf set by wineconf at Sat Jan 31 13:26:53 <-- cmorgan has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- RShearman has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- marv has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- laxdragon has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- peteH__ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- m-t|afk has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) --> TD[gone] (~mike@navi.cs.colorado.edu) has joined #wineconf --> cmorgan (~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-245-76.ma.charter.com) has joined #wineconf --> laxdragon (~laxdragon@jnewman.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> Curtis|out (~Curtis@ip68-107-114-101.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #wineconf --> m-t|afk (~gregasert@z73.211-132-157.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp) has joined #wineconf --> peteH__ (~peter@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf --> RShearman (~RShearman@81.100.44.105) has joined #wineconf --> kirkage (marvel@hill-b-101.resnet.purdue.edu) has joined #wineconf --> marv (~ilovekimm@64-251-140-229-dialup-mo.fidnet.com) has joined #wineconf --> ajptx (~ajp@cs6669206-220.austin.rr.com) has joined #wineconf <-- Curtis|out has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- kirkage has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- ajptx has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- marv has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- peteH__ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- m-t|afk has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- cmorgan has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- TD[gone] has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- RShearman has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) <-- laxdragon has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) --> ajptx (~ajp@cs6669206-220.austin.rr.com) has joined #wineconf --> peteH__ (~peter@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf --> RShearman (~RShearman@81.100.44.105) has joined #wineconf --> kirkage (marvel@hill-b-101.resnet.purdue.edu) has joined #wineconf --> marv (~ilovekimm@64-251-140-229-dialup-mo.fidnet.com) has joined #wineconf --> Curtis|out (~Curtis@ip68-107-114-101.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #wineconf --> m-t|afk (~gregasert@z73.211-132-157.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp) has joined #wineconf --> laxdragon (~laxdragon@jnewman.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> cmorgan (~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-245-76.ma.charter.com) has joined #wineconf --> TD[gone] (~mike@navi.cs.colorado.edu) has joined #wineconf <-- marv has quit (Client Quit) --> marv (~ilovekimm@64-251-142-15-dialup-mo.fidnet.com) has joined #wineconf <-- cmorgan has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) --> Tom (~Tom@207.144.214.48) has joined #wineconf <-- Tom has quit ("Client Exiting") <-- ajptx has quit ("ZZZ") --- m-t|afk is now known as m-t <-- marv has quit (Client Quit) --> peteH_ (~peter@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf --> jcc (~jcc@rrcs-west-24-199-44-118.biz.rr.com) has joined #wineconf hi <-- jcc has quit (Client Quit) <-- peteH__ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) --- m-t is now known as m-t|afk --> Ormod (~ormod@cs78130014.pp.htv.fi) has joined #wineconf --> perchrh (~perchrh@huset.math.ntnu.no) has joined #wineconf --> stegefin (~stegefin@m57.net81-64-140.noos.fr) has joined #wineconf <-- perchrh (~perchrh@huset.math.ntnu.no) has left #wineconf --> nyef (~nyef@h000625ecd142.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #wineconf <-- stegefin has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) --> q[acme] (~acme@kanga.astray.com) has joined #wineconf --> villager (ovehk@wirth.ping.uio.no) has joined #wineconf --> calb (calb@197.Red-217-126-129.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #wineconf <-- calb has quit ("Terminando cliente") --> filip2307 (xgecko@prahab-4-107.dialup.vol.cz) has joined #wineconf <-- filip2307 (xgecko@prahab-4-107.dialup.vol.cz) has left #wineconf --> stegefin (~stegefin@m57.net81-64-140.noos.fr) has joined #wineconf --- m-t|afk is now known as m-t <-- stegefin (~stegefin@m57.net81-64-140.noos.fr) has left #wineconf --> GvG (GvG@geldorp.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf good morning --> JasonEdm (JasonE@the-edmeades.demon.co.uk) has joined #wineconf laxdragon: G'morning. --> nox- (nox@p50867566.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #wineconf hiya. dragging it bit this morning. we were out last night till past midnight again, then back up at 6. After 4 days of that schedule, getting a bit worn down. Ahh. I decided to go to bed at 10 last night just so I -could- be up at 6. gotta go set up the conference room in a few min. Did TD manage to arrive yet? And is there any word on an audio-only stream for today? (for those of us who never got the QT stream working yesterday) hmmmm, we could shut down the video feed, but we are still going to use QT, no time to setup anything else. I'd rather keep it up for now. We may put the video files up for download later (higly compressed of course) Problem with QT is that I got -nothing- promising out of it yesterday. have you tried mplayer? I have had real good luck with that. if you use redhat, you can get a compatible build of mplayer from here: http://atrpms.physik.fu-berlin.de/ laxdragon: Have you tried setting the stream to be cacheable? Might help with the audio's choppiness I got complaints about missing codecs and signal 11 from that. mplayer refuses to -dumpstream that link (which may be du to the fact thats its down now, tho...) the debian sarge version should work as well (for debian guys) And for us Gentoo users? no stream at the moment, the mac is unplugged gentoo, bah Ahh well. I'll just spend the day watching in here and working on the typelib stuff. Without a proper media feed from the conference. search google for building for 'LIVE' support into mplayer, standard mplayer does not have it. Already done. simple patch I think. That was emerge live / emerge mplayer and it has LIVE.COM support. hmm, well 'it works for me' anyway gotta go setup, be on my notbook in hour or so. Even the stock QT 6.5 on windows doesn't work for me. :-/ nyef what mplayer version do you have that doesnt work? 0.92-3.2.3, I think. hm 0.92 didnt have the `real' rtsp support yet iirc, live.com may still work dunno, but maybe you should try a more recent mplayer The 6.5 ver on Windows displayed video but extremely choppy audio yesterday for me Okay, emerge sync in progress... I'll see if it wants to build a newer version in a bit. 1.0pre3 is current laxdragon: perhaps you only tested mplayer over your lan, that's the only way I can see you "having luck" with it... mplayer just says "This stream is non-cacheable" and works like crap is the qt stream the same one or are there two? non-cacheable? thats bad... --> Ivan (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf Hello all. --> newman (~jnewman@dhcp186.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --- m-t is now known as m-t|afk stream is up, camera not on yet. Still have about 45min + before we really get started newman: is the cacheability fixed yet? mplayer refuses to -dumpstream it so its probably not cacheable... --> jkinz (~jkinz@h006097672564.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #wineconf --> mike_m (~mike@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> jil (~juan@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> UweB (~bon@p50816998.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #WineConf Good morning! moin Starting playback... but no window. is that b/c the cam isnt on yet? hi we're on in 15mins or so it's 8:50am localtime would have hoped you'd fix the streams before then Nox: Audio stream is broke. Try with -ao asdfakjh (some bad name for the driver), and you get the video stream Stream is still tagged "This stream is non-cacheable" villager: not sure what's going on with streams Camera still displays the On-Screen menu (OSD) apparently it's not going any better than yesterday Oh dear... :-( Thats not good today we're going to try putting presentations online UweB tnx, stream works now Nox: both streams or only the vidoe? only video mike_m, check out this post from Metze: sorry http://lists.samba.org/archive/samba-technical/2004-January/033983.html --> _Marcus_ (~marcus@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf <_Marcus_> hi Moin Marcus <_Marcus_> moin uwe --> aricstewart (~aric@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf morning everyone will it be announced here when audio is working? Okay, the OSD is gone. Thanks i dont know if we are going to get anythig better than late yesterday yup we figured that one out. Aric, as posted, the tag ""This stream is non-cacheable" seems suspicious. mplayer refuses to -dumpstream it With the nondeterministic delays off the internet, sound _must_ get choppy, i.m.h.O villager: gav is going to have a go at getting it working ok Aric: the is no audio stream --> vinn (vinn@69.59.162.164) has joined #wineconf --> vizzini (vizzini@plasmic.com) has joined #wineconf Aric: Corrected: there is no audio stram or a broken audio stream --> mstefani (~mstefani@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf morning --- cvs/hq/wine/server/window.c 2003-12-13 16:28:40.000000000 +0800 could you disconnect and reconnect? +++ wine/server/window.c 2004-02-01 16:42:00.000000000 +0800 @@ -290,6 +290,15 @@ static struct window *create_window( str free( win ); return NULL; } + if ((unsigned long)win->handle & 1) + { + if (!(win->handle = alloc_user_handle( win, USER_WINDOW ))) + { + release_class( class ); + free( win ); + return NULL; + } + } win->parent = parent; win->owner = owner ? owner->handle : 0; win->first_child = NULL; apparenty the above makes project 2000 work.... aricstewart: stream still not cacheable my audio sounds like a machine gun! --> shachar (~sun@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf hi marcus! how are you doing? ok we switched codec still bad? --> BBrox (~ulmer@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #WineConf sounds the same. This only started a min ago or so, so that might be the new codec? aricstewart: until you make the stream cacheable, absolutely no codec can help you still refuses toMPlayer interrupted by signal 11 in module: decode_audio yeah we are not sure how to do that... still looking. still refuses to -dumpstream it --> dmitry_t (dmitry@pppdrt2.baikal.ru) has joined #wineconf <-- vinn has quit (Client Quit) hi all hi --> vinn (vinn@69.59.162.164) has joined #wineconf hi dmitry_t --> [ericP] (~[ericP]@ACaen-202-1-21-47.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #wineconf ah. much better. <[ericP]> morning folks 404 - not found? dmitry_t: nice patch :) * vinn waves. hi vinn mike_m: thanks :-) MPlayer interrupted by signal 11 in module: decode_audio <[ericP]> same here I still get the gun like sound guess mplayer doesn't like that codec video alone works Its choppy guns though - they keep stopping to reload? --> vandread (~mark@ijbema.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf Well video is not bad. Sound gone, not sure if it's the stream or all those directsound errors. dmitry_t: does that patch make project 2002 work also? unfortinatly i dont think the cashing is something i can do from here. i think i need jwhite to log into the darwin server on winehq and see. but he is very busy right now. i will switch codec back to mpg-4 wonder if mplayer has a way to show transfer rate any other codecs? --> sky__ (~sky@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf or mono rather than stereo etc? good morning oooo, there needs to be a stereo open source project, that should aim to reimplement mono :-) Could xine play the stream? If the wine project forks mono to better support windows.forms or whatever it is, maybe the fork should be called 'stereo', then. ^_^ ok back to mpg-4. almost everybody is here.... we're getting ready to roll jer is going to look quickly at the server, but he feels like we have wasted too much time. we will make the recording avaliable. mike_m: I have no project 2002 CD here --> mifritscher (~michael@pD9EC6F6A.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #wineconf machine gun here too now with mplayer... I failed to play the stream with; mpc/mplayer4win32/IE+QT6.5 ;( try qt 6.3 --> Tom (~Tom@204.116.24.84) has joined #wineconf * BBrox is wondering if the video-out port is working when in Linux on his laptop.... It would be nice if it does for my talk :-) dunno how to downgrade uninstall qt 6.5, install tq 6.3 Sound for me sounds like a choppy machine gun ok, I'll try.thx machine guns at 6.3 too * nox- disables sound again hmm, perhaps the NAT is messing me up after all I'm not getting a bip sound from time to time hi <-- [ericP] has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/20030630]") marcus: where did put the pictures i fear we are running out of time if anyone know how to do it say so asap otherwise we are going to have to give up. <_Marcus_> http://www.lst.de/~mm/wineconf.html try mpeg 1, or better stream over http what is the exact error message about caching so we can google for it? Connected to server: wine.codeweavers.com This stream is non-cacheable Stream not seekable! --> huw (~daviesh@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> wineconf (~guest@jwhite-mobile.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf I don't think a live stream can be seekable no, but I pasted it for completeness villager: any ideas how to make the stream cacheable? --> ulrich (~ulrich@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf no, I've never operated streaming servers is it supposed to be cached in the server? --> gav_mac (~gavriels@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf I think the idea is that the client caches e.g. 2 seconds of data, thus lagging 2 seconds behind the presentation, but in return being protected against 2 seconds of network delays we're testing no video only audio any better? --- Tom is now known as yoyo26 Choppy machine gun with some voice wineconf, still the machine gun sound for me atleast. --> tindalos (~tindalos@ool-18b80cbd.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #wineconf well, at least I now get machine-gun audio without any choppiness we're trying to reduce audio bit rate now villager: you should be hearing Aric's voice --- yoyo26 is now known as Tomm --- Tomm is now known as Tom wonder how to fix "Unable to determine our source address: no address" in my mplayer Just download shoutcast, it's even supposed to have a nice aqua frontend. ;) <-- huw has quit ("Leaving") yah. I was just going to do shoutcast, but the apple stuff worked so nicely we thought it would be fine. should have had someone from europe test it first... Scratch that, no aqua frontend for shoutcast.. my "no address" thing doesn't seem to be a problem though, just makes mplayer slow to start but sorry, folks, we're going to just have to go with what we have --> huw (~daviesh@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf morning huw The current one doesnt have an audio track at all? (Streaming track->format,mpeg-4 video only?) --- Tom is now known as sakala2 --> bad2073 (~titan@AGrenoble-203-1-22-171.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #wineconf Hi! hey jil any better now? yes choppy but not machine gun! cool ok, we're about to start needs to be louder much better --- sakala2 is now known as Twickliar jwhite is introducing the adgenda (agenda) we're going to talk about winelib. mike and tom to talk about joining the wine community reactos demo is anybody logging? I'm going to leave (too late here) and would like to see what happened without me dimi+francois are on dmitry_t, why aren't you here, BTW? Did TD manage to arrive? i think i have logging on now... nyef: yes, TD is here (bugger - spoke too soon. Back to choppy) shachar: problem with US visa dmitry_t, that sucks! shachar: not only you think so :-) so you will also vote against wineconf in the US next year, I'm hoping dimi is talking about winelib he says he took over from francois Next year we should have a vote on the stream server to use. shachar: actually I hope that next time I'll have no problems with US visa again as sound is soooo good, can someone please let us know whats going on? ok --- Twickliar is now known as sakala dimi: you have a win app,and want to port to linux mingw works... mingw is "in the middle" have to change toolset... compiler, etc. change assumptions about the program: case problems mingw can take us half way (from building on windows to linux+wine) once you've ported to mingw on windows, you can proceed to port to wine/linux "we're tried to make the second part very easy" by implementing winegcc, etc winemaker is the first tool. the second is winegcc can someone tell me how to delete all the files on someones computer?? Ivan: we had the wrong audio source selected before Oh, sarcasm. Oops. windres, wrc are now commandline compatible using this technique, we've ported some apps. eg. wxWindows can just go "configure --with-wine" and it will "just work" I'm leaving, bye all <-- dmitry_t has quit ("please do not write in CAPS mode, save my disk space...") we get to test our headers with winelib some problems solved so far ported some other apps... visual mingw, (Odacity?) did have some ugly hacks before, but getting better audacity? nox-: yes, maybe dimi - we have a bunch of problems still... need more features in gcc wxWindows has a trick: builds only as a static library jwhite asks: if i have project foo with foo.c and foo.exe works on windows and then i use winegcc at the end, what do i get? foo.exe? dimi - you get a foo script a foo.exe.so and you type foo and it works small c++ progs are ok... large ones present some trouble --- m-t|afk is now known as m-t vcfwcxAz part of the problem is that we have limited resources <-- wineconf has quit ("Client Exiting") winegcc helps things to be a bit more efficient... missing feature - can't generate dlls when we have that, we can build wxWindows with dynamic libraries that would give wxWindows users a way to migrate to Linux wxWindows apps are sometimes not portable because they use windows api calls boaz - can we use mingw headers? steve ed - no, because mingw headers are borked --> ajptx (~ajp@cs6669206-220.austin.rr.com) has joined #wineconf boaz - can we use wine headers to build on windows? steve ed: yes dimi - yes, that can be a good way to help porting --> [ericP] (~[ericP]@ACaen-202-1-5-169.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #wineconf winegcc works with configure gav: we've been using winebuilder gav: that works well. why use winegcc? fgouget: the way to generate wine libs changes regularly so using winegcc is more stable dimi - if you don't want to port to mingw first, then you don't need winegcc dimi wanted a simple way to port dimi thought there would be many mingw based apps but didn't find so many.... ported a few fgouget will now talk about winemaker --- mstefani is now known as puk btw. is the stream ok? can you guys hear ? not really audio is not really understandable In agree with nox --> Wulfie (~Wulfie@gateway.ottawa.transgaming.com) has joined #wineconf agreed. Sound is bad. i have no sound at all actually, what are you guys using to play it with? mplayer mplayer too. mplayer - i can have audio or video but not both wine-20040121+qt6.3 * nox- has both anyone using quicktime? me ah, it works now for me, thx good, i just told someone to use it without knowing if it works :) slides: Winemaker * windows projects dont have makefiles are the slides on the web? => make it easy to generate winelib makefiles Ivan: no, no slides on the web next slide: Winemaker shortcomings: * should generate mingw makefiles * but winemaker isdumb - guesses project structure from source files - some things can't be guessed => use as starting point next slide: * most windows apps use visual c++ => add visual c++ prjsupport * this way we'll get it right - the right include path - the right set of libs - the right list of source files fgouget is doing a demo "programming win95" book demos fgouget runs winemaker... configure.ac Makefile.in Make.rules.in generated run configure (after generating it) <-- sakala has quit ("Client Exiting") changes into one of the project subdirs runs make script + exe is generated run the script... but it fails! can't find the entry point... actually not the entry point,,, need to link with winmm add winmm to the makefile make again runs the app, and it works! "hello windows 95" the work needs to be done only once --> crazney (~crazney@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf --> Tom-W (~Tom@204.116.24.84) has joined #wineconf <-- crazney has quit (Remote closed the connection) --> crazney (~crazney@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf hi Tom-W hi --> Royce3 (~Royce3@dialup-216-40-236-117.ev1.net) has joined #wineconf --> filip2307 (xgecko@prahab-5-56.dialup.vol.cz) has joined #wineconf --> cmorgan (~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-245-76.ma.charter.com) has joined #wineconf how are you morning ;-) good morning mike_m? sorry... discussion we're talking about dsp->make conversions i suggested just being able to build directly from the dsp file Dimi is trying to dump work on others yeah hes good for that anyone have mplayer options that fix the sound up a little bit? having trouble following the discussion today --> bcrt2k (~bcrt2k@HSE-Toronto-ppp116581.sympatico.ca) has joined #wineconf boaz and fgouget discuss how to link with a dll --> ravelo (ravelo@193.81.29.137) has joined #wineconf dimi - boaz will now demonstrate a c++ app cmorgan: only today? villager: more so today than yesterday even boaz sets up his laptop i think they decreased the audio bitrate... jwhite suggests to break for discussion soon nox-: yes, bitrate was decreased doh boaz suggests "winemaker 2" is it already mono? dsw2make no, its stereo (from mingw project) * nox- only gets sound out of one speaker that would make complete sense I only get sound out of one speaker too. stereo signal with only one input yea if it was mono it would duplicate the audio to both speakers i'd imagine can you guys bump the bps back up and fall back to mono? * nyef is happy to be getting sound at all. licenses-- dos2unix - converting / etc --> gmt (~greg@adsl-65-43-252-173.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) has joined #wineconf "code robots" - pragma packs - declspec property declspec uuid whats a code robot? similar to a fembot i think Something like a codewalker, but with a different name? It's a script that you can plug in the WIneMaker infrastructure that is passed on each file. So basically winemaker walks the list of all files and calls each robots on each file. <-- Tom-W has quit ("Client Exiting") nox-: i think it's just something that looks at the code and makes .spec files, etc boaz wants to use def files rather than .spec thinks we can do a hack to make thatwork What about a def->spec conversion? Would that be feasable? * villager tries to compile a caching rtsp proxy he found on the net nyef: well spec files contain more information boaz complains that static libraries don't work in winelib aj suggests that static libraries work.... fight! :) heh more details! ;-) boaz insists that specifying static libs with winemaker(?) doesn't work dimi+aj+fgouget insist they work heh boaz was outnumbered, so gives in slammed more like --> fingal (~fingal@62.ppp145.rsd.worldonline.se) has joined #wineconf boaz also suggests an stl port for winelib and a "wineguru" site something similar to codeproject codeguru.com ? I'm not building it :-p --> calb (calb@197.Red-217-126-129.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #wineconf maybe people will help boaz with his static libraries so we can see if they actually do work ;-) <_Marcus_> http://www.lst.de/~mm/wineconf.html <_Marcus_> more pictures online break time <[ericP]> which static libs are we talking about ? msvcrt's or gcc's ? I'll have a slew of pics online later tonight, I'll put a link on the WineConf website. neat where is dimi? heh. there's me cmorgan: he's there, 3rd picture down mike_m: yep, saw him there, i mean in here ;-) i'm there... 2nd pic from the bottom, next to gav what happened to the stream? its nice to see people you normally only converse with via email i think the feed is turned off because we're not recording ok Boaz, Dimi, Alexandre, and Francois are having a discussion about shared libs in with Winelib apps why aren't you recording? Joe (the camera guy) is on a cofee break ;) kind of hard to figure out what to record.. and Joe isn't here My pics as soon as I reboot my box :-) we'll take this offline time to switch the audio to mono, if it isn't already and up the bitrate a bit? you guys can just drop the video if that helps and a hiher resolution * nox- doubts that higher res would be good, there are already enough frames dropped as it is... mike_m: so how would an inf file be "executed" under wine? * nyef didn't see any video anyway. the camera is off right now. <[ericP]> cmorgan: an inf just provides a bunch of parameters to run a DOS (for example) program [ericP]: so say i have an inf file, how do i execute that? <[ericP]> an inf is not runnable per se, the filemanager, explorer... know how to deal with them (as shortcuts) <[ericP]> I dunno if we support that yet so explorer myinf.inf ? cmorgan: something like rundll32 setupapi,SetupInstallFromHinf example.inf RShearman: thats how windows does it? grr, can't figure out how to make mplayer use a rtsp proxy --> jasfilb (~jasonf@ndn-ip-nas-1-p190.telkom-ipnet.co.za) has joined #wineconf yeah, and we should support that Actually the setupapi.dll function is InstallHinfSection, but it's not implemented in Wine. ok, well it should be so InstallHinfSection instead of SetupInstallFromHinf? i guess so yup and one or two numbers before the "example.inf" what numbers? these numbers specify if the computer should be rebooted or not and such things "RUNDLL32.EXE SETUPAPI.DLL,InstallHinfSection DefaultInstall 132 C:\WINDOWS\INF\SHELL.INF Example. 132 means Set the default path of the installation to the location of the INF and if a reboot of the computer is necessary, ask the user for permission before rebooting. The Wine prototype for that function has HWND as the first parameter and HINSTANCE of the second. Is this wrong then? gotcha <-- vizzini has quit ("[BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c19 for the Amiga today!") filip2307: those don't match with some i've found online filip2307: you have a source of documentation for this? ;-) cmorgan - MSDN naturally ;-) RShearman - Wine prototype matches the one in MSDN. MSDN says "Note that three exports exist. InstallHinfSection for RunDll32, InstallHinfSectionA is an alias to InstallHinfSection, and InstallHinfSectionW when CmdLineBuffer is a wide character string. SetupAPI has a prototype for this in Windows XP for direct linking." yep, found it 132 is 128(set default path to inf location) + 4(reboot) + 2(ask) or actually, no, hats 1134 134 Ah, I see now 132 is just set path and reboot filip2307: very neat, thanks ;-) InstallHinfSection is different from InstallHinfSectionA and InstallHinfSectionW InstallHinfSection is just for rundll32 filip2307: you wouldn't happen to know how i could embed a combobox dropdown inside of a treeview control would you? ;-) cmorgan - Why would you need that? ;) hmm, no I'm wrong filip2307: trying to fixup a tab in the winecfg program hmm It appears rundll32 fills in the first two parameters for you Gav is demoing Indiana Jones on his OS/X laptop filip2307: it would be useful to have that, would be more user friendly than the combolists outside of the control RShearman: still working on QUARTZ BTW ? <-- ravelo has quit (Connection timed out) Not actively filip2307: just some general direction would be enough i think. i've just never done it before cmorgan - It would be too hard to do it... <_Marcus_> bei meinen /cl <_Marcus_> hmm filip2307: would it be? filip2307: i've seen treeviews with different colored text, that seemed easy BBrox: I had some ideas about how I would do the audio renderer, but never got around to it :( if i understand you correctly, yes that is easy getting ready to start again here. ok, we are about to start the reactOS demo filip2307: basically a treeview with elements, you expand the parent node and the children have text and then the dropdown next to the text we switched to 16 bit mono sound also. is the stream up again? cmorgan - I really have no idea how to do it (easy way)... RShearman: OK, will have to put my nose in it again one of these days :-) apparently we need to broadcast in stereo or it doesn't work can u up the bitrate a bit? boo, next time, we will use shoutcast. (according to aric) or icecast nox-: that makes it less reliable i hear everything in slomo? reactos presentation is starting filip2307: you experenced with windows programming and controls? should i just fallback to having external dropdowns? ie, draw the "name" and then the "value" and update the combobox outside with the value Sound is better now (bitrate was upped to 16bit) sound is much better RSearman: That would be cool to have audio renderer. Some audio apps (like Cakewalk pro audio) are base upon DirectShow. slide: yes, sound is good i hear all sound in slowmotion somehow project overvide: cmorgan - i would suggest that morning folks. * 100% compat windows distro ah, it's great now filip2307: alright, thanks for your help ;-) audio is more understandable now * full distro, all apps,explorer calc,etc * compatability is #1 audio is mostly good now :-) new slide: still choppy, but better * started in feb 1998 * shipping 0.2 <-- bcrt2k has quit (Remote closed the connection) (he's really fast so i'm having trouble keeping up) <-- UweB has quit ("EPIC - EOF from stdin") new slide: mike_m: who is this? Steven ? from Reactos kernel devel (not edwards) mike_m: why are they writing reactos? vinizzi? <_Marcus_> because they want to :) i was curious as to their motives ;-) yup, vizzini working on GUI/app support <[ericP]> cmorgan: why are we writing wine ? reactos explorer basic windowing and MDI improvements cmorgan - have a good compatible desktop operating system bottom line: nothing works ;) hehe not true :P [ericP]: run windows apps ;-) * uses wine for use mode code <[ericP]> mike_m: you mean nothing works yet filip2307: ahh [ericP]: yep reactos has helped with captive, so its good for somehing :) 'little works' :) new slide: Reactos benefits from wine, and vice versa ros -> wine : mingw, msvc compat cleanups of headers and import libs new slide: burning q? why reactos? * applications with kernel component * semantic equivilence to windows heh * driver compatibility --> ravelo (~asdf@L0802P18.dipool.highway.telekom.at) has joined #wineconf * free (as in speech) alternative for people who want windows "grandmother factor" - should work for all new slide: Roadmap Near term - 0.2.X * continued gui improvements * menus, scrollbars, explorer improvements * general ui bug fixes (for apps0 * kernel infrastructure and bugfixes * regisry, drivers, networking progress What was that about "We could, but then it wouldn't be windows"? * app segfaults also segfault the kernel .... hmm ;( nyef: change the color of the bsod --> Thunderbird (Roderick@thunderbird.student.utwente.nl) has joined #wineconf * next major release: 0.3 Heh. Should have a controll panel for that. ^_- hi hello * cache manager, fsrtl, ifs support what happened to the audio? heard something before nothing anymore right now .. * networking improvements its working better now Thunderbird: it works for me nyef - Well, why not? ;) * memory manager and kernel pnp I connected a few minutes ago and the nthe sound disappeared * app support --> gavriels (~gavriels@ottawa-hs-64-26-171-253.s-ip.magma.ca) has joined #wineconf hm. reconnect? what are you using? new slide: stuff we need Thunderbi - Try pause + unpause. * security infrastructure * cifs ( directX * drivers, fs * fleshed out videoport,scsiport, etc c++, mfc userland tools print subsys uxtheme debug apu is it my connection or is he talking very fast? platform support SMP, AMD 64, IA64 he is talking fast Thunderbird: he talks * real * fast architectural issues (locks memory barriers) "what am i forgetting?" Is laptop power management support on the list? screen shots: (has a console + calc) what are the reactos guys doing with the winserver, btw? running in VMware crazney: nothing... the ntoskrnl implemenation replaces it <[ericP]> crazney: there's no wineserver in ros, just a plain kernel ok crazney - There's no wineserver. There's win32k, a subsystem running in kernel mode. there's a run box there too (from the explorer) new screenshot can't get the sound back .. reactos exporer Winzip works! gone a little choppy here too video is lagging behind for me (selfextraction) tertis works! ;) (and a screenshot to boot) "fast enough to be interesting: and a webbrowser?? yes yeah mozilla-based, I guess? --> Skywing (Skywing@tark-b-196.resnet.purdue.edu) has joined #wineconf "winembed" webbrowser ... based on gecko are they going to reimplement IE? yup, it's a Mozilla example Ivan - No anyone know which class it implements? new speaker mshtml, shdocvw? Steve edwards what about programs that need IE? Ivan: "need ie" can mean many things :) Ivan: they'll just use another engine, same interface but now that streaming is marginally useful, is there much interesting left to watch on wineconf? vmware session.... booting reactos (with freeloader) Ivan - We will do the same as Wine, use Mozilla ActiveX control wmware vga + nic works filip2307: that won't work in many situations crazney: wine needs to solve that problem too crazney - Why? and the Mozilla control seems the easier way --> UweB (~bon@p50816998.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #WineConf filip2307: as i pointed out to mike the other day, mozilla activex is an implementation of the shdocvw class, not mshtml as mike tried to stub it as.. so you'll have to hack down further to get mshtml support crazney: yep which many of the apps that "need IE support" require explorer works .... menus works Yup, but it's planned to implement also the MSHTML COM objects... filip2307: planned by whom, the mozilla activex guys? yes rebooting the vmware image ok, well that will be cool - though i'd think a while off it crashed? (after a crash trying to browser) there comes murphy hehe <-- fingal has quit (Connection timed out) mike_m: what was the question? New slides version : http://bbrox.org/wine_gaming.sxi Thanks. rebooted... but the mouse didn't work installing reactos again *g* murphy all the way Jason, do you need an ms office format again? reactos setup that looks like winnt4 setup --> uriel (~binarydre@212.100.226.95) has joined #wineconf Stability? Who cares... --> stegefin (~stegefin@m57.net81-64-140.noos.fr) has joined #wineconf installing on a 512m partition using FAT, not ntfs (which isn't supported as yet) short discussion of if ntfs is required rebooting for 2nd stage of install freeloader is installed and ros is installed using the run box from ros explorer to start cmd cmd is up and running regedit is going perhaps in the future: cmd in window or fullscreen? in window Codeweavers ReactOS 1.0 ;) :) That would be cool i suggested to them to make a winforlin type build.... hmm, yes that would be very cool .. and install nt into a nt kernel embedded in Linux but they didn't seem to go for that :/ to make it possible to replace the real win2k kernel with the reactos version .. solataire is installed and running used gnu cards implementation menus don't work it could be used to create the opposite of colinux .. but it looks right (colinx == lin4win) Thunderbird: yes, that would be cool oops, the painting is a bit borked but it's working notepad is working i know this issue --- Royce3 is now known as Royce3|away and it's fixed in my local tree already quite amazing tried to start "My Computer" ... but "the floppy bug" bites again can't they remove the floppy device from vmware? boaz: what are you using for graphics? X? He doesn't have a spare floppy inserted in drive? ;) ros guys: we implemented gdi rendering properly filip2307: it was in VMWare Ivan - We can disable the floppy driver... you can insert some fake floppy drive .. gav is interested in their dib rendered err a real fake floppy .. some discussion of dib sections and the dib engine mike_m - Not completely true, your painting implementation is a tie to X11 on some places and has wrong sending of WM_NCPAINT message Well, as ReactOS is GPL or LGPL, it's not a good idea for Gav :-) is the video stream currently working? s/ a tie/tied/ we need a cairo based dibengine (don't have time to work on that ..) constantly dropping frames but working what did gav want? DIB engine. couldn't hear it .. <-- shachar has quit ("Leaving") the one from reactos? fgouget: do you support 16bit apps? ros: no they need WOW WOW? Windows On Windows Thunderbird: well, ReactOS has a DIB engine. The question is can we borrow it in Wine. that 64bit layer for win64bit? Windows on Windows (16 bit on 32) ah Idea! gav gives gpl d3d, reactso gives X11 dib in return, and wine takes all it can. --> fgouget (~fgouget@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf And WOW32 on Itanium too WOW - A technology to run Win16 applications in an environment where they think that there's cooperative multitasking, ... Ivan: if we wanted it that bad, we could fix up the dib engine that a co-op student wrote for us :). i guess. perhaps it is easier to start from scratch using cairo .. which is released under x11 if anyone wants to improve it * crazney looks around. as it is doing lots of the stuff already .. crazney: Gav told the audience that it was not that useful :-) crazney: gav talked about that Thunderbird: that wouldn't work, unfortunately. what'd he have to say about it? * BBrox needs to prod to get Fabrice's beginning of a vector / ... engine :-) mono is mixing wine code with cairo for gdiplus.dll ros guys said that they looked at tg's dib engine ..and? And Gav told what I told just 5 lines up :-) heh ;p bbrox would your ddraw over d3d hack work better for games? some discussion of getting samba to work on ros Thunderbird: no idea. As my card does not support paletted textures, I never did any work on this hack. Thunderbird: re cairo, its api is kinda server based, which is exactly what we want to get away from with a dibengine. BBrox: are you gonna talk about merging and reusing some directx code? every time i go to look at it i find the same things implemented like 3 times we should donate bbrox new (old) hardware .. crazney: there was a whole discussion on the retained / direct API nature of Cairo on the FD.O X server list and the conclusion is that it's a direct API (and not retained as Postscript) ros presentation is complete. everybody claps ajptx: see last slide :-) BBrox: hrm. does it have a 'draw to memory' backend? yes, it can do that .. really? hrm. didn't know that. crazney: yes it does. GL, memory and X11 from what I know. oh, I see, new slides version.... they also have a opengl backend in progress, not sure how usefull it is Thunderbird - we started on it last night ;) guess it might be more useful than i originally thought, then. it should go fairly quickly tho, the only thing we actually have to implement is the ICD mechanism, and we think we got it figured out The problem is always that you do either GL or bitmap... perhaps better than the current dibengine? <-- mifritscher has quit (Connection timed out) BBrox: did you see my post about my keyboard focus problems being gone as far as i can tell??? So there is no way to get accelerated rendering and bitmap rendering at the same time. royce3|away note that opensource 3dfx windows drivers are floating over the net .. ajptx: saw it, yeah. if you have a voodoo banshee/3/4/5 you could play with such a card and their "opensource" drivers .. am i crazy or did that like silently get fixed? and you could see how icd works .. Royce3|away: OpenGL ICD on ROS ? yes --- Royce3|away is now known as Royce3 Nice :-) Need to see this to try to do something similar in Wine :-) I heard about the driver source floating around. Not sure we can legally use it, but we think we got it nailed just from analyzing exports and imports ok If you write some docs from it, that would be mightily cool... bbrox seems you will get some extra directx guys soon ;) <-- jasfilb (~jasonf@ndn-ip-nas-1-p190.telkom-ipnet.co.za) has left #wineconf it appears pretty simple, just query a registry directory to get a list of opengl icds on the system, then call DrvGetProcAddress to get exports from the icd think the ros guys are willing to help you clean up d3d .. ajptx: focus on installers? Thunderbird: well, we discussed it a bit yesterday... The problem is that we are not that keen of using MS's HAL (and Gav told us that it did not gain them much yet and obfuscated a bit their code) the ICD communicates with it's driver via ExtEscape() we think Thunderbird: but if they want to help and do some work, why not :-) calb: Yes ajptx: resident evil installer is yet broken, no tested install shield apps getting d3d8 working on ros isn't that difficult compared to d3d1-7, right? calb: ok, I ran several that gave me problems in the past and they worked, there may still be some bad ones out there... ajptx: yes i think so starting again --> henla464 (~lase@f109.ryd.student.liu.se) has joined #wineconf Jan is presenting Captive FS Agenda: what is that? Thunderbird: yes, d3d1-7 is less cleaner because tied to ddraw. Captive/Reactos benefits for wine NT kernel debugging types of nt functions implemenation traceFS cdecl/stdcall/fstcall relaying sandboxing cmorgan: loading native NTFS driver in Linux ahh btw, what does Captive guys? new slide : captive ntfs benefits for wine target: r/w NTFS by ntfs.sys ntfs.sys is an nt kernel driver(native) existing wine only works in nt userland existing reactos native pc hardward (?) wanted:nt kernel environment on GNU/Linux wine benefit: driver compatibility new slide: it had been funnier if he had selected the safedisc driver before than ntfs :) NS-Windows subsystems environment his development of captive benefited us in several indirect ways did some fascinating analysis of the cache manager if I recall correctly http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/Preview.html.pl looking at "Captive Subsystem Architecture" slide now the slide above that new slide: Debugging: use dumpbin.exe <-- ravelo has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) and Winedbg in remote NT kernel debug mode gdb for code that's already been ported new slide: Functions implemenation implemented about 300 functions simple case: pass to ntoskernel.exe simetimes use reactos implemenation sometimes a captive reimplemenation now looking at"Functions reusal ratio" from the web page new slide: Unicode MS-Windows uses UCS2 GNU uses UCS4 Captive does runtime conversion New slide: binary formats captive uses PE32 loader implementation from Reactos Loader and the ELF loader from ld.so 9these are used by ext2fsd.so?) New slide: TraceFS used to debug the cache manager stream hangs switch to web page: tracefs cache manager hooking Did anyone else lose sound? Bothe streams stopped here too nyef: fixing now <_Marcus_> aric is checking should be right again ok ok too. ok here again new slide: captive uses single threading --> Q-collective (~BlackWolf@cp76544-b.gelen1.lb.home.nl) has joined #wineconf plop :) --> w3seek (w3seek@p5088558B.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #wineconf bad2073: Sorry away from here for another 30 mins, but if you wouldnt mind forwarding them, I would appreciate it! --> mtempel (~mark@cos.fofx.org) has joined #wineconf --> papineau (~vincent@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf Back later... new slide: Relaying * w32 uses cdecl or stdcall or fastcall * gcc's stdcall and fastcall are broken * captive unix i scdecl * w32 code is relayed (like wine) switch to web page: Code wrapping of a call from Microsoft Windows code --> [1]ivan (~ivan@adsl-67-113-42-132.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) has joined #wineconf <[1]ivan> ivan: dont steal nicks mkay! JasonEdm: Sent... bad2073: sent what :-) ? I arrived here first, and thats just my name <_Marcus_> thats what "nickserv" is for. BBrox: Jason doesn't have OO actually. I sent him a MS Office version. bad2073: oh :-) BBroc: if "the real Ivan" would use nickserver... oops... just fixing an audio problem <[1]ivan> Ivan, i'm gonna fucking ghost you if you dont change it pal [1]ivan: with all do respect... stfu :) <[1]ivan> due whatever <_Marcus_> 1ivan: then just do. Ivan: I wouldn't switch your nick just out of principle now <-- Ivan has quit (Nick collision from services.) --- [1]ivan is now known as ivan <-- ivan (~ivan@adsl-67-113-42-132.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) has left #wineconf plop :) Wulfie: indeed same here ;) --> ivanleo (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf <-- filip2307 (xgecko@prahab-5-56.dialup.vol.cz) has left #wineconf <-- ivanleo has quit (Client Quit) stegefin: so how does Darwine + QEMU progresses :-) ? yep :) QEMU is built * mike_m would like to hear a darwine presentation Building as a system emulation or program emulation ? but I am looking for a bug or two to killl is the captive stuff interesting? BTW, living where in France ? didn't follow it .. Paris. jwhite suggests that there's ..... food!! Hah, you should hook up with Fabrice then :-) For Now As a system Emulation and that we take a group photo But I already implemented some swapping function * BBrox crashed at Fabrice's place before going to WineConf.. so that Wine can load a LE pe exe And I am pretty interested in the GL acceleration stuff with Wine + QEMU. It is done fairly efficiently using signals (I just need to get a Mac first :-) ) stream hangs Stream is off, we go taking the pic... ;) To be honnest I think that as soon as I'll get my week of holliday I'll get binary emulation in wine. --> ivanleo (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf --- Q-collective has changed the topic to: WineConf '04 - --- Q-collective has changed the topic to: WineConf '04 - http://www.winehq.org/wineconf/stream.html :+ are there any presentations left? oops :+ When is the OLE one? hmmz there's now a break for an hour then ole + gaming k What's going to be discussed at hte ole one? Just ole in general? I'm currently in windows (no comments plz :P)... how can I watch over here? http://www.winehq.org/wineconf/ nyef ask _marcus_ I would quite like to know about replacing the slow named pipe stuff in OLE with RPC did mike hearn arrive already? btw, anyone interested in reactos screenshots? i could give some sites with screenshots if you guys want :) vandread: I am, but on the other hand I saw them already ;) http://129.125.140.135/~mark/ros/ http://129.125.140.135/~wierd/ROS_Tortures/ http://129.125.140.135/~ravelo/ http://www.volny.cz/xnavara/screenshotz/ <-- for anyone interested stegefin how far is qemu for darwin? my roommate has a dual g5 .. :) he loves to get qemu running (doesn't want to buy virtualpc ..) and it isn't even available for his box yet qemu? Q-collective: it's a x86 emulator like bochs some fast x86 emulator stegefin: the day it works, come at WineConf to show it off :-) http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/ in what way is it different from bochs or vmware? I only get bios panics from qemu:( Q-collective: faster than bochs Q-collective: and vmware isn't a x86 emulator <_Marcus_> http://www.lst.de/~mm/p2010033.jpg vandread: then what is it then? :+ <-- puk has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) vandread: qemu doesn't emulate a cpu? --> wineconf (~guest@jwhite-mobile.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf Q-collective: it's a vm, but it just redirects the instructions to the cpu, that is, you can't run it on a powerpc, and make it run x86 programs Q-collective: qemu does, vmware doesn't ah ok --> Gge (~chatzilla@lns-p19-8-82-65-76-208.adsl.proxad.net) has joined #wineconf mike_m: still there? Thunderbird: so where is mike? Everybody is eating :-) did he ever get there? don't know was just wondering if he arrived at all .. TD arrived fine yesterday evening. good good BBrox: in that photo marcus pasted, which is you, mikem, td and marcus? Marcus, why isn't the group photo on the main wineconf photo page? glad he wasn't damaged in transit ;-) everyong is eating now. :) * ivanleo slaps ivanleo around with a small 50lb Unix Manual ok anyone want to name people in that photo for me? :) is the stream currently working? can anyone send me the IP of that photo - I have no dns currently nope no stream right now. bah wulfie, just call zorkon crazney: called - no one home oh damn --> ealiberti (tinyirc@ppp-45-89.25-151.libero.it) has joined #wineconf ^CDavid-Hammertons-Computer:~ crazney$ host www.lst.de www.lst.de is an alias for verein.lst.de. verein.lst.de has address 212.34.189.10 when are they beginning with the show? :) wineconf is going to restart at 1:30 local time. so about 50 minutes from now. the agenda says: 10:15-12:00 reastos demo and discussion 13:00-14:00 ole, led by Marcus yeah we are running about 1/2 hour late --> BlackWolf_ (~BlackWolf@cp76544-b.gelen1.lb.home.nl) has joined #wineconf <-- gav_mac has quit (Connection timed out) exit <-- aricstewart has quit (Remote closed the connection) --> aricstewart (~aric@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf Just back. Bad2073: Thanks :-) bbbrox: Slides are good. --> filip2307 (xgecko@prahak-53.dialup.vol.cz) has joined #wineconf JasonEdm: wineconf is starting again in about 30 minutes, everybody is having launch. ok, thnx <-- Q-collective has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) --> Greg_ (~Greg@adsl-65-43-252-170.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) has joined #wineconf <_Marcus_> ivanleo: we just took it before lunch Marcus: Took what? <_Marcus_> the group picture --> crh (ubiqx@c-66-41-165-106.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #wineconf <-- filip2307 has quit () is there a girl on the group picture? I think there's 2 looks one to me .. only the one in the back what about the one to the right of her? hmm that one is tricky .. its so a guy we could be gravely offending somebody right now :( yeah true crazney: I dunno * crazney shuts up the hair isn't right. and stuff yeah and the clothes are so streched .. or the person is fat or a girl .. perhaps we need to wait for some of them to come back online to tell <-- ivanleo has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.4") --> ivanleo (~ivan@62.123.51.4) has joined #wineconf Back... bbrox: At some point can we have the discussion about gl headers (I saw it in your foils), ie **please** can we have all the gl headers as part of the wine tree! --> puk (~mstefani@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf I'm frightened every time I use a new constant - one patch to put it in, and 3 to make everyone elses environments build... JasonEdm: well, I did it manually in the D3D7 tree :-) (ie I have _WINE constants instead of _ARB, _NV, _ATI, ...) they still didn't start? :) opengl api isn't that complicated, it wouldn't be too hard to build new ones that were LGPL <_Marcus_> http://www.lst.de/~mm/p2010033.jpg Royce3: well, I can pretty easily generate header files with my make_opengl script got it bbrox - how about putting them in the wine includes rather than ddraw then? there was a question about how many girls there were .. some people count one and others count two of them .. only one woman. mandi my apologies to the one who's not :( The "other" one is Arthur that means somebody's *pissed* ;) :) Marcus - did you still need help with names>? I'm sowwy Arthur, please don't hate me He doesn't know it yet so can someone point out mikem and mikeh in the photo for me? JasonEdm: because Raphael was not really keen on doing _WINE sufixes someone point out all the ros guys for me ;) --- w3seek is now known as w3seek|AFK Royce3: Marcus is putting names on it yay! cool Make sure he gives gav horns again!!! bbrox: Its a little more complex when we need the _arb ones in wine then! But perhaps thats something we can work on. I want to make gl desicions at runtime not compile time and howcome only gav is wearing a tag? JasonEdm: the goal is to build without glext.h at all :-) what about gl.h? I don't think the name tags were out this morning <-- henla464 has quit () yesterday they were right by the door. Well, gl.h is pretty standard and I never had any issue with it... Mike Hearn is up next. sure, but it means you can build on a machine without gl installed (ie rpm's etc) and still run <-- BlackWolf_ (~BlackWolf@cp76544-b.gelen1.lb.home.nl) has left #wineconf ("We are the source, you will be compilated, resistance is /dev/null!") please notify us when you put the stream up Of course. But then why not do it for freetype and all the other crap ? The purpose is what it's like to be a new Wine developer and how we can get more bbrox: Mind you, you probably need to link with a gl library? JasonEdm: not DDraw code, it's all ldopen'ed <-- stegefin (~stegefin@m57.net81-64-140.noos.fr) has left #wineconf stream is up but no audio apparently <_Marcus_> vinn: i am nearly done ooh... I'm jealous! 'k any left? * nox- has audio JasonEdm: for D3D8/9 it's not needed as D3D8 without GL is not possible at all. Whereas DDraw without GL is perfectly OK :-) hmm Same for d3dcore if ever we do it : no need to ever dlopen GL there. Also, jwhite has a complete list of names. He told me he would get that to me later. audio shoulds be up ok, restarting gave me audio hrmpf, same problem i had yesterday, it cuts out after a few seconds... well, maybe i upgrade my windoze quicktime bbrox: if we can put the wine headers in eg. include\wine, then I'll see if I can use it - Would AJ go for that? I get sound cut off every 5-6 minutes, but I'm quite sure its a bug in wine. JasonEdm: no idea, but I still have at least one day to discuss live with him :) nah - in qt on win I loose it and have to pause/restart to get it back dunno, i get same under exploder and mozilla under xp here... (my mplayer 0.92 apparently won't do it) <_Marcus_> http://www.lst.de/~mm/wineconf.html has the group photo at the top now --> Q-collective (~BlackWolf@cp76544-b.gelen1.lb.home.nl) has joined #wineconf <-- Greg_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.52B [Mozilla rv:1.6/20040113]") --> Greg_ (~Greg@adsl-65-43-252-170.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) has joined #wineconf I like it - here is everyone and Joe --> henla464 (~lase@f109.ryd.student.liu.se) has joined #wineconf Marcus - you missed one, who's behind Mike Hearn? <-- Gge has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.35 [Mozilla rv:1.5/20031007]") <_Marcus_> oh yes Art? ReactOS <_Marcus_> Art ? ?? vinn? <_Marcus_> Art Yerkes ? Yup, it matches the 'When do they arrive' page :-) where's that page? <_Marcus_> oh and what is the last name of the video guy, i cant read his nametag that good :/ --> ravelo (~asdf@L0826P28.dipool.highway.telekom.at) has joined #wineconf Joe Baker <_Marcus_> ah, thanks what's the talk about now? How to get involved in WIne and the associated barrers _Marcus_: the colours on http://www.lst.de/~mm/p2010033.jpg are fucked up big time for me <_Marcus_> crazney: i dont have any problems here. _Marcus_: to copy paste :) é (for Vincent Béron) and ç (for François Gouget) :-) they look ok in mozilla bad in safari fine in netscape the original was fine in safari --> Yen (Yen@d51A58A7B.kabel.telenet.be) has joined #wineconf mike_m: yeah, you look australian ;-) you look like the guy at the local BP hah ;p --> d (~fgouget@robinson-4-82-66-147-106.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #wineconf Can someone summarize - sound isnt _that_ good... sounds like underwater :( What I'm hearing (through this rather choppy sound) is an overview of COM and the IUnknown interface. <-- d (~fgouget@robinson-4-82-66-147-106.fbx.proxad.net) has left #wineconf ("Client exiting") Just mentioned IUnknown::AddRef and IUnknown::Release, and how it is important to keep the refcounts correct... class factories... Now the out-of-process function calling, including stubs and proxies... (I get about 10% of what is said... every 10-30 secs the audio drops, pause, restart....) Same here. crazney: yah, i have a bit of growth, since i haven't shaved for a week or so :) who * nyef: Marcus is talking about your typelib generation code --> ravelo_ (ravelo@adsl193.r24-Dbg2.Vie.AT.KPNQwest.net) has joined #wineconf Cool. Missed that. --> shachar (~sun@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf meh, i give up... maybe theyll put the recordings up later eh? --> Z_God (~julius@schwartzenberg.xs4all.nl) has joined #wineconf <-- ravelo has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) What was that about dcom95? marcus said : "i'm the only person advocatng not installing dcom95" Ahh. BTW, my future slides are on http://bbrox.org/wine_gaming.xsi :-) bbrox: 404 Lionel, in netscape I just get binary text. Can you link them from an html page, so I can right-click and save link target as? I've got ppt format from Christian if anyone wants me to email it to them Jason me pls Whats ur email? Sorry .sxi :-) http://bbrox.org/wine_gaming.sxi :-) ivanleo: you can just paste the URL in OO :-) BBrox: Is it a new version? ivanleo: do wget http://bbrox.org/wine_gaming.sxi what is sxi? ooo fileformat ooo? openoffice open office got it can't open in ppt can I? :( it is some plain xml .. rename .sxi to .zip .. and extract the contents Anyway, it's not earth-shattering :-) then you might be able to open it royce3 - I sent you a ppt version it was converted for me I could export it as PPT in OO... pls bbrox? <-- ealiberti has quit ("I was using TinyIRC! Visit http://www.tinyirc.net/ for more information.") oh, same as what Jason sent me I'm ok then I thought Jason was sending something else ;) unless bbrox has updated them since this morning! did they arrive? yes thank you or export it to pdf What was that about monikers? Royce3: you could try the same name, but with .ppt at the end :-) wanted to know if we had support for it 30 minute break whats coming after the break? Lionel? I think Yup! <-- puk has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) --> mstefani (~mstefani@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf :-) so did anyone recognize that handwriting... <_Marcus_> my slides were on http://www.lst.de/~mm/ole.pdf Now you tell us...! :-) <_Marcus_> sorry what whats is the general opinion of the webcast today? better? still not watchable? better. Video is fine (I could even read some of the slides). Audio is better but still too choppy BBrox - you in group shot? the sound skips all the time over here I probably hear about 10% overall yes, sound is lacking Royce3: yup, bottom 'Lionel Ulmer' (and it was taken with my digicam :-) ) Video? There's video with it? Audio is better. ok so generally improved but not successful. oh well, it was fun to try. audio is better than it was, but still only barely understandable (to much chopping) it is better than before (the webcast) mp3 audio streaming might be a better idea Slides were more readable. <-- Greg_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.52B [Mozilla rv:1.6/20040113]") yeah we are thinking we should have dont that, but it is too late now. Man, you will miss my 3DMark2000 demo with audio-only streaming :-) <-- w3seek|AFK has quit (Connection timed out) can't get video on my 26k connection :( BBrox: A demo? Cool, man! how is the performance compared to a windows box? ;) Well after the Alice demo, you have a lot to live up to :-) Sure! but alice was opengl Yes, Indeed. It was a demo for the shm server. alice can probably already run on wine as fast as that demo Nop, not with the actual wineserver. well, the demo for without-shmserver, of course Has anyone tried Alice on wine? :-) bbrox - btw I think your final statement is the most accurate. We need more people prepared to dive into directx maybe a directX todo would be useful and information on how to setup and do development ie, how do you guys do it? test on windows then under wine? what apps do you run? do you write test apps for specific behavior? etc When I started on dx8 support I knew nothing about 3d graphics. I started it because I wanted to learn, and downloaded a few suites of tutorials exactly My happiest moment so far in wine hacking was getting a triangle on the screen a webpage about that kind of stuff would be very very helpful i'd imagine JasonEdm: Tried once Alice McGee, IIRC. Was not that slow. I can try to put something together including d3d8 debugging tips if anyone is interested JasonEdm: And You did a execellent job, Jason. i would be d3d8 in wine isn't bad at all, mafia is playable, if you run it without sound. bad0273: Thanks, but no, theres large parts in there I would probably do differently if I knew then what I know now. JasonEdm: You're debugging stuff (D3DTRACE file and so on) is very usefull. realistically if you want d3d support, winex is vastly superior and probably always will be. It was never the aim to replace it the trace + screen shots can be really useful. Unfortunately if you just get a black screen you are stuffed... that why desktop mode exists by black screen I mean you cant see why the thing being drawn isnt appearing there no help from GL in debugging that I have found for example I have over the last two days put in what I think is basic hw vertex shader support but now, when I use it (rather than the software) I get *nothing* and i dont know how to debug... test pgms I suppose! JasonEdm: Don't be so modest. What you're done is a good startind point. I doesn't if this cannot compete with WineX. 3dfx had a developer version of opengl, perhaps ati or nv do too? if anyone knows anything, let me know...! I'm back to hitting my head on brick walls what time are they restarting? or is my stream screwed AFAIK the stream is off I think it was something like a half hour break, although I could be wrong about that. JasonEdm: that kind of stuff would be very useful to people starting into directX work under wine from when? :-) JasonEdm: you should think about putting together a website ;-) or rather, a webpage <-- Yen has quit () it was a half hour break, so it should be another 10 minutes JasonEdm: you can try to use OpenGL's feedback mode to verify that the transformed vertices are okay I have, it just doesnt include anything about wine villager: I'll take a look. I dont think it will help with the vertex shaders but I've never though about using it for other issues. cmorgan: I'll try to put something together when I get back and do a post to wine-devel. I'm off on holiday after today so it'll be at least a week... --> bcrt2k (~bcrt2k@HSE-Toronto-ppp116581.sympatico.ca) has joined #wineconf JasonEdm: neat ;-) need lots of momentum coming off of wineconf ;-) JasonEdm: I can relate to this when I saw TombRaider on screen for the first time in 98 :) --> Yen (Yen@d51A58A7B.kabel.telenet.be) has joined #wineconf Hey my triangle was special - It was all white on a black background... :-) It was supposed to be multicoloured, but hey - I wasnt complaining... JasonEdm: I'm currently using feedback mode in winex to see what polygons are drawn where, both for calculating dirty rectangles for old games that mix 2D and 3D, and more recently for debugging purposes (see what's drawn under the mouse cursor), so I thought perhaps the idea could be useful for you thnx - i'll certainly take a look JasonEdm: does not Mesa have a shader debug mode ? villager: does not feedback mode slow down things too much in TNL cards ? bbrox: Never heard of it. Silly question, but if I am using the nvidia drivers I'm not going through the mesa code, am I? (I know I can go back to a default driver) BBrox: yes, I don't use for newer games I dont care about slow... I want to know why something isnt right! BBrox: except when debugging JasonEdm: well, I always try to run at least once my stuff with Mesa + debug mode to check for GL errors which are not catched by 'release' versions. hm - never thought of that. I do checks after each call (will compile them out eventually) Anyway, the day I start coding on D3D8/9, I will try to write stuff down on how I entered into the code (which I do not know at all :-) ) hey, all help welcome...please... please... (getting down and begging...) Will see how the free time goes in the next few weeks :-) I think warcraft3 was the first game I got working on wine, and max payne what did you get working now? :) I have the first 15 frames of the logo of bf1942 cool then it dies and I cant work out why... :-( * BBrox wants to do something horribly slow too to debug : do a read of the frame buffer after each DrawPrimitive call to be able to identify bad geometry bbrox: d3d8 code has that in already :-) i just had a helluva time why my vanilla wine wasnt working figuring it out.. for some reason my messed up winex installation affected wine JasonEdm: yeah, this is what you told in your mail... But well, with texture tracing, I often manage to see what gets written on the screen and when. bbrox: You compile it in for a full screen app and it dumps a screen dump after each draw call. You can also dump out all the textures as well BBrox: we're using feedback only 1) when debugging, or 2) when we have to do a slow glReadPixels or glDrawPixels anyway because the game is doing a 2D Lock op, in which case it's still faster to use feedback to get some dirty rects, than to always transfer the whole framebuffer bbrox: You can turn it on for a single frame or over a period of time (looks for existence of a file at start of each frame) Never thought about using feedback mode for dirty rect support... Will have to think about it for some games to see if it fasten things up :) I wanted to use feedback to transform the vertex buffers (for games like the D3D version of EMI) BBrox: it's always possible to do the transform manually instead of using feedback, of course... villager: yeah, but clipping is a bitch. Well, I suppose feedback does not clip either :-) BBrox: yeah, I think that's why I just used feedback BBrox: feedback does clip Ah yes, I remember now. So yes, this is why feedback is better :-) BBrox: that clipping is also exactly why feedback *can't* be used for TransformVertices You cannot transform and clip using TransformVertices ? We currently do a big hack for TransformVertices (which kinda works but not if the applications actually wants to read the transformed vertices). BBrox: TransformVertices transforms, but when it comes to clipping, it sets a bunch of flags... and the actual clipping is done by the rendering call bbrox: What time u on? JasonEdm: soon now. It should have started 5 minutes ago. we are starting to try to get orginized. I dont suppose anyone there could paraphrase any discussions for me please? yea that would be nice yes pleeez jwhite is thanking those who donated. ooo - 3dmark :-) my sound is great now :) yeahhh! 3dmark running in wine? --> el (~fgouget@robinson-4-82-66-147-106.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #wineconf cool if so using sb16 instead of via686 <-- _Marcus_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) I heard my name :-) just as the audio dropped... --> _Marcus_ (~marcus@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf skipping again :( what is he saying? <_Marcus_> he is talking about direct x :) what a surprise hehe it sounds here like a robot hehe, but big audio pauses, i guest that my adsl sucks :( oh its not your asdl adsl rather or maybe that compiling+mplayer is not a good idea :/ lol It's the stream, I sould get a full screen full frame rate bbc 1 broadband news, but the wineconf stream really sucks it's probably the "This stream is non-cacheable" that's to blame sound seems worse than before I have 1024Kbps and the stream is still truly crap I have 680, but it looks like a 56k stream yes "stream is non-cacheable" is most likely the problem and that mplayer can't -dumpstream it... what was that question? mike_m? continue the play by play? newman: well, BBrox put his slides up the question was about the buggy i810 DSound in Wine whether it was a wine bug or a Linux driver bug some discussion, Eric P is the expert in Wine sound ah - ok, thnx now some discussion why the quartz dll was pulled the author was apparently worried about the DMCA why? I heard something about him using the sdk - was that copying stuff across? but we have quartz back now right? that might have been a red herring alexandre said he was worried about issues with his employer no, its very impcomplete yes, we have quartz incomplete compared to the previous one by Hidori(sp) was it? rshearman: Glad to see we agree :-) :) I haven't looked at the previous one too much, but I think the range of codecs was larger, but less was implemented in each one some discussion about directplay some say the M$ games use it but most agreed Linux gamers usually have dedicated servers so directplay isn't getting much attention I said that (Thanks for the summary jil - appreciated) :) who asked about GL headers? that's coming.. m$ games are quite popular I did! we're on the issues page for those following along direct surface locking--older games use it but it kills performance even on windows --> filip2307 (xgecko@prahaa-5-49.dialup.vol.cz) has joined #wineconf yeah, we have that on dx8 as well whne people lock the backbuffer talking about multiple buffers now (they dont' work) alexandre's hoping some of this will get fixed with the window mgmt rewrite? but it will take time Less of a problem for older games, but new games are having issues with it Clipping problems: sorry, didn't really follow that but think it's some options in wgl/directx that aren't supported in glx <-- ravelo_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) relative mouse mvmt: there's no x extension for it there are some hacks, but they can cause latency <-- [ericP] has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/20030630]") a new x extension is prolly the way to do it --> ravelo (ravelo@193.81.129.3) has joined #wineconf lionel asked the freedesktop.org people about it they were interested, but aren't working on input yet GL headers: problem most many people don't install them maybe checking headers in is the right approach (JasonEdm: more specific question?) I think we were talkin about shipping our own Yep.. but I heard "we," not "I" so no commitment to do it yet *change the battery...* what did that mean as it flashed on the screen...? :-) changing missed a couple Status of profile: mike_m is maintaining a patch but hasn't checked it in a while kernel profile in 2.6 linux kernel is working (oprofile) Has anyone documented how to use it with wine? mike hearn says Ove says it "just works" Boaz: someone should write about it jwhite passes the ball to mike_m? next issue: dll separation is different in wine than in windoze yeah, they use a user mode dll and a device drive HAL. We dont some speculation on other ways including a real windoze kernel :) --> fingal (~fingal@111.ppp135.rsd.worldonline.se) has joined #wineconf now on the Future page Lionel thinks d3d7-9 is a pretty good api it's pretty separated from the win32 api and therefore easy to get into d3d8 was the best of them imho d3d needs more hackers d3d9 brings back some of the ugliness of d3d7 havent looked at 9 yet :-( <-- q[acme] has quit ("enowine") d3d9 surfaces have GetDC, for example back to the Gaming in Wine page: steven ed: able to load safedisc driver in ros mike hearn: driver's evil including timing characteristics so even ioctl translation won't necessarily work but can wine make use of that? not necessarily, because it depends on timing characteristics of the cd class driver in windoze jwhite[gone]: could we use an SDK from safedisc? has anyone in the wine(hq) community contacted them? anyonme volunteering? it might be useful to contact the author of daemon-tools schachar: difficulty is whether loading the driver would be considered a reverse-engineering use and therefore problematic in the DMcA Marcus: we want to load the real driver, so we don't know how it works.. and therefore aren't reverse engineering it steven ed volunteers to ask safedisc wow... go for it steven! Yeah! :) schachar: it could be a wine-specific binary steven ed: the safedisc driver is already on the game disk marcus: it should be possible to load the driver because it doesn't talk to hardware but it references ntoskrnl.exe and hal anyone offering to add that support to load drivers? ah mike_m: captive ntfs uses the real windows modules so couldn't be used in wine with replicating them. so how does savedisk work on win9x if it references to ntoskrnl.exe? there is a different version for win9x, iirc yes, it is ivanleo: it does different things depending on what os it runs on yeah, and that one's nastier IIRC the win9x one can just touch the hw directly too yep I know securom does that isnt it silly we are worried about the DMCA to support copy protection, and so instead tell everyone to crack their games! heh lol jil - any conclusion to that discussion? well, then it'll be everyone else that gets sued, not wine, so... some (ot imo) discussion on how safedisc driver is loaded whether it's done with LoadDriver or driver's installed JasonEdm: so, no mike_m, mike hearn: loading their driver is doable steven ed's on record to contact safedisc jwhite[gone]: no licensing discussion here, dammit! well, for those that haven't tried, every SecuROM game I've tried has "just worked" as long as I set the winver to NT safedisc doesnt dimi: how many games are working now? JasonEdm: I know, but securom counts for a lot of games..... <_Marcus_> jil: i know. :) BBrox: don't know problem is getting them installed (marcus) and then copy protection he works mostly from demos to avoid the problems yes, I do too full games? pfff, a short number mike hearn: steams a way off marcus: problem is lack of crypto support mike hearn: cryptos not too hard, crypto support for what? s/steams/steam is/ but it uses lots of overlapped io which is hard install? dunno it does basically work, but the howto's long (sorry: mike hearn said that) mike hearn: winehq's wineserver is slow for it install is not a problem using 2 o 3 native dlls, but safedisc is the next wall :( lionel: we should break half life.. so cw will stop gaming and code more :) ha! :) some halflife problems: a palette problem <-- filip2307 has quit () * newman thinks NEVER! ;) and input problems in fullscreen mode alexandre: problem is because fullscreen window isn't managed and you can't rely on x to set the focus correctly fix requires making all windows managed * ajptx goes to test HL with current wine <-- el (~fgouget@robinson-4-82-66-147-106.fbx.proxad.net) has left #wineconf ("Client exiting") am I the only one that has seen those unmanaged windows stop being unmanaged all the time??? HL works good in CrossOver. ajptx: :D mike hearn: trouble is window styles for tooltips and fullscreen windows are similar. not steam though, install HL from CD, then patch with the last patch that came out before steam hit, I think it is hl110.exe A hack is not notice the size of the window and manage the big ones oops: "to notice", not "not notice" Boaz: are there Linux games using hw shaders? * newman wonders if a full screen "desktop" mode would work, aka make the wine desktop run full screen using XRandR Lionel: dunno newman: lionel and i have talked about that think it would work fine winex does something like that mtempel: there are probably only a few game engines in use might be a good temporary work around until something better is built. have we contacted their authors for help getting them to work? (jil remembers some nonexistent company) Lionel: sometimes they're pretty helpful and send patches so maybe we should contact more game engine companies. hasnt winex tried that? jwhite[gone]: the winex folks have probably talked to them a lot Schachar: many (sw) companies don't much care about linux depending on whom you reach that is definitely changing over time though yeah mtempel: can't wine be marketed as a great way to port apps? jwhite[gone]: yeah, we're really funning for that (again) with c4 we can certify your app for linux (and you can pay us to do that... :) ) oops, "gunning" not "funning" have they had much positive responses to that? jwhite[gone]: we've just started, but so far it's going well our game company supports linux by making the game cross-platform, not by using wine, so I'm not sure what I can do about it <-- nyef has quit ("Gotta run...") Royce3: start making it a winelib app and contrib patches? i.e. working in wine doesn't help to port to mac winelib might.. really? how so? I thought someone was already working on porting winelib to mac oh, winelib, yeah, sorry jwhite[gone]: bottom line is people are willing to pay for productivity apps but not big bucks for games I'll talk to my linux/mac guy, see what he thinks Straw poll: how many people play games? (everyone) steven ed: how many people pay for games? (fewer) * BBrox is at keyboard again :-) * villager pays * BBrox too (even for music CDs) <-- sky__ has quit ("Client exiting") jwhite[gone]: part of the reason is people want to see how much they can run.. for $0 think it would work fine think it would work fine just get game companies to release games under the GPL how are game companies going to profit from their games when released as GPL? just kidding less support costs? :-) lol jwhite[gone]: gamers just want to play games.. Royce3: the artwork and data files doesn't have to be GPL and pay for heat pipes and water cooling Royce3: just the code and don't care about the M$ license or booting windoze time to wrap up id, for example, makes far more money off it's code than it's artwork & ata wrapping up folks, thanks!!! jil: thnx for keeping us updated Royce3: well, I've never been impressed by their artwork anyway no prob, thanx for the patches! lol c ya! <-- jil has quit ("Client Exiting") --- newman has changed the topic to: WineConf '04 - Thanks for coming. jil: Yes, thanks <-- wineconf has quit (Remote closed the connection) game over, man. <-- vinn has quit ("Leaving") remember to put the recording online <-- newman has quit ("Leaving") <-- shachar has quit ("Leaving") Thanks for audio & video streaming and live report. fwiw I got the best reception in that talk than all the others :-) Got about 30%... i hope the streaming was not too terrible. <-- mstefani has quit ("Leaving") nah - We had a commentry anyway! we tried... I'll try to be there next year! great! yes, thanks for the stream and live report. <-- fingal has quit ("Client exiting") aricstewart will you put the recordings online? just can someone please sort out the dates early! I would like to attend next year, too yeah i dont know the timeline for that, but we do plan to put the recordings online. * ajptx wants to be ther next time too.... jwhite will e-mail the mailing list about it. <-- Yen has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) bbrox - you there? Did you ask aj about putting wine gl headers into our tree? The conference was really interesting and exciting. Thanks!!! JasonEdm: I mentionned it during the call. Will ask him live :-) ok - let me know if you get an answer. If yes, if you move it in, I'll work on d3d8 to use it <-- Z_God (~julius@schwartzenberg.xs4all.nl) has left #wineconf Sounded like an interesting safedisk discussion... I hope something comes from it. Even just loading the driver would be a good start (as the ability to load drivers could be helpful for other apps too, if they dont do kernel access...) Off now - Thanks to all. Bye bye cya <-- JasonEdm has quit () Thanks to all you guys. Bye! <-- bad2073 (~titan@AGrenoble-203-1-22-171.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #wineconf <-- papineau has quit ("Leaving") <-- GvG (GvG@geldorp.xs4all.nl) has left #wineconf <-- Ormod (~ormod@cs78130014.pp.htv.fi) has left #wineconf (""You run, never stop, got to win, got to run till you drop"") ok, couple things with half-life -- anyone still care? I've never played half life <-- henla464 has quit () ah well, what I found: the installer and updater run fine now without being trapped in a desktop my sysmetrics patch from the other day fixes the windows appearing offscreen the main game window still comes up unmanaged because it uses slightly different attributes from the ones that are working now the games I tried that used to make unmanaged windows but don't now are the blizzard ones warcraft3, diablo2, starcraft... <-- aricstewart has quit ("Client Exiting") <-- Royce3 (~Royce3@dialup-216-40-236-117.ev1.net) has left #wineconf the difference seems to be that those games just make one game window and draw menus etc in it, while half-life makes a ton of windows with a compicated parent/child relationship ajptx: What is your mailing address you sent the patches from? so back the conference has ended I presume? yep darn :+ UweB: ajp@mail.utexas.edu --> mstefani (~mstefani@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --- mstefani is now known as puk <-- puk has quit (Remote closed the connection) oh look, orkut is down "Bad, bad server. No donut for you" err, wrong window <-- Q-collective has quit ("Linux for the real job, ReactOS for fun :)") <-- kirkage (marvel@hill-b-101.resnet.purdue.edu) has left #wineconf ("We embryos are hungry, please fetus.") <-- crh (ubiqx@c-66-41-165-106.mn.client2.attbi.com) has left #wineconf ("Client Exiting") --> mstefani (~mstefani@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf <-- Thunderbird has quit ("Bezig met afsluiten") <-- UweB has quit ("epic+tkirc2") <-- ravelo has quit () <-- vandread has quit ("zz") <-- ivanleo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) --- cmorgan is now known as cmorgan_away --> TD (~mike@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf woo! * TD waves --> craztop (~crazney@CPE0050ba280577-CM023469902629.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wineconf <-- crazney has quit (Connection reset by peer) <-- calb has quit ("Terminando cliente") <-- mstefani has quit ("Leaving") --> puk (~mstefani@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf <-- puk has quit (Client Quit) --> bartold (~bartold@pq238.warszawa.cvx.ppp.tpnet.pl) has joined #wineconf anybody out there? sure --> puk (~mstefani@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf I'm typing from far away, I'm curious how's the party going... <-- nox- has quit ("ZZZZzzzzz") bartold: just ended actually there are still a fair few guys here <-- m-t (~gregasert@z73.211-132-157.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp) has left #wineconf in the conference's schedule there was a note of "games" -- what games were you dealing with most? <_Marcus_> just a generic games talk what kind of magic potions were in use? :) <_Marcus_> no, lionel just gave a generic overview --> Olev (Marvin@80-235-36-46-dsl.mus.estpak.ee) has joined #wineconf hello hello, olev so how was wineconf? any exiting new code into wine? <_Marcus_> no new code, mostly talks some details --- what was the main issue in the "games" part? <-- huw has quit (Remote closed the connection) BBrox: poke BBrox: join #winehackers bartold: well, the slides will probably be put up soon enough, we're going to get some grub <-- ulrich has quit (Remote closed the connection) bartold: basically - copy protection, directx support, ip issues etc all the usual suspects Back with a car... TD: ah, I created winedevel :-) BBrox: doh! well, i just announced winehackers to wine-devel, so i beat you to it :) why the hell are we talking to irc when you're right next to me? :D was mirc discussed? It has many special scripts for game rom, etc sharing ... Can delete the winedevel one :-) ok. shall we go for food? it's 7 already <-- TD has quit ("food") <-- BBrox has quit ("Food...") <-- _Marcus_ has quit ("leaving") <-- mike_m has quit ("Leaving") <-- puk has quit ("Leaving") <-- gmt has quit ("ciao") <-- bartold has quit ("Leaving") <-- Olev has quit (""Eestlased, ärge räppige." -- Dr. Koit") <-- fgouget has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) --- cmorgan_away is now known as cmorgan --- cmorgan is now known as cmorgan_away <-- mtempel has quit ("leaving") --> jerhome (~jwhite@jwhite-home.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> Tom (~Tom@204.116.24.84) has joined #wineconf <-- Tom has quit ("Client Exiting") --- cmorgan_away is now known as cmorgan <-- cmorgan has quit (Remote closed the connection) <-- craztop has quit ("Leaving") <-- peteH_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) <-- bcrt2k (~bcrt2k@HSE-Toronto-ppp116581.sympatico.ca) has left #wineconf ("Leaving") <-- jerhome has quit ("Client exiting") --> gav_mac (~gavriels@206.169.97.18) has joined #wineconf <-- gav_mac has quit ("I like core dumps") --> stalke (~stalke@200.12.238.162) has joined #wineconf <-- stalke has quit (Client Quit) --> ravelo (~asdf@193.170.128.43) has joined #wineconf --> henla464 (~lase@f109.ryd.student.liu.se) has joined #wineconf <-- villager (ovehk@wirth.ping.uio.no) has left #wineconf <-- ravelo has quit () --> CAlex (~alex@host-c1e7069b.tuiasi.ro) has joined #wineconf <-- CAlex (~alex@host-c1e7069b.tuiasi.ro) has left #wineconf --> uioa (~uioa@ntiskw006094.iskw.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp) has joined #wineconf <-- henla464 (~lase@f109.ryd.student.liu.se) has left #wineconf The carnival had have done? ... bye <-- uioa (~uioa@ntiskw006094.iskw.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp) has left #wineconf --> aricstewart (~aric@shima.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> wferi (~wferi@tba.elte.hu) has joined #wineconf zak found this. http://www.dailyrotation.com/cgi-bin/linez/load.cgi?http://www.theInquirer.net/?article=13935&foo=Open%20software%20firm%20sponsors%20wine%20conference%20in%20Minnesota%2002-02-2004 --- You are now known as jwhite --> Skywing|Ghost (~skywing_n@pal211-049.itap.purdue.edu) has joined #wineconf --> huw (~daviesh@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf --> booner (~daniel@gateway.ottawa.transgaming.com) has joined #wineconf <-- Skywing has quit (Nick collision from services.) --- Skywing|Ghost is now known as Skywing --> ulrich (~ulrich@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf Will some video recordings of the lectures/discussions be available for download? Or some IRC logs? wferi: hopefully; we Boaz has full recordings of it. but he's in transit back to Israel right now http://www.winehq.org/wineconf/album/2004/ laxdragon: Nice pictures, thanks! I'm also looking forward seeing the videos, unfortunately I wasn't able to follow the real time stream. we will put them up soon as we hear back from boaz. I think they will be edited down a bit, IE remove all the dead air time. --> fgouget (~fgouget@subnet.codeweavers.com) has joined #wineconf in the meantime, if anyone has the complete IRC chat log, I'd be glad to put it online.