[lostwages] Remove winetools from download page

wino at piments.com wino at piments.com
Fri Dec 23 03:18:15 CST 2005

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 06:58:03 +0100, Vitaliy Margolen  
<wine-devel at kievinfo.com> wrote:

>>> 6. "Version"="win98" - that is wrong. Wine's default _is_ win2k.
>> It is right for the goal of the winetools. Again, this is why it's
>> titled "3rd Party Tools".
> No, it's not. Some major changes have been made to low level code that
> makes Wine much more like with winNT then win9x. If you enforce win9x for
> each program - you creating potential problems. And again, most programs
> with do things differently on win9x then winNT. Like disabling some
> features. So that again means that we never getting feedback from users.

Maybe this highlights the fundemental issue here. There is a divergence  
between the needs of the developers to improve Wine and the needs of the  
users who want to use an albeit it imperfect tool to run windoze  
applications on Linux.

I just installed an linux system for a freind and included wine. The next  
day I got a call: she had no idea how to use it or where to go, so I  
started to explain.....

I quickly realised that it was too much and too complicated to explain.

May I suggest that anyone involved in the wine project gets an "ordinary  
user" to install and use wine. The dev must be gagged and bound for this  
test !!

This is what I do with my software. When a user installs the demo in my  
presence I tell him to pretend I'm not there and I watch. Sometimes I ask  
him to explain why he did/didnot do something. It's amazing how many  
things seem obvious to me but do not even exist in the world of the user.

A technically excellent tool that is unusable is useless.

If winetools and/or sidenet help many user to get going they are a  
valuable asset to Wine and Linux. Far from removing the winetools link I  
would prefer to see sidenet added.

If devs can demonstrate that win2k default now _works_ better that win98  
for most apps, that would be grounds to suggest a change to winetools. For  
the app I use on wine I started with win2k and had to revert to 98.

If some things on winetools could be updated I'm sure suggestions will be  
welcome as long as not accompanied by veiled threats like "do this or we  
may decide we dont want the link". We all have the same goal but what is  
good for one is not good for all. Let's insure that different paths can  
coexist productively.

Linux desktop is taking off NOW. Wine will play whatever contribution it  
makes to the future of Linux now, not in 6mths a year or ten years when it  
hits 1.0

Stop tweeking the dlls , take a deep breath and look around. I think user  
access needs to be the number one dev objective at this time.

I hope all these comments and suggestions can be taken in a positive vein.  
I really want to see wine succeed.

Best regards to all involved.

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