Broken FC5 packages - stay clear.

[Stephen Clark]

Andreas Bierfert wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:31:12 +0100
>Mike Hearn <mike at plan99.net> wrote:
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>>On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 00:03:23 +0200, Andreas Bierfert wrote:
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>>>Well from a wine perspective I see that this makes sense, but if you take a
>>>look at all the dependencies it is another story...
>>>      
>>>
>>This is a problem with RPM and not with Wine. If RPM/yum had the concept
>>of optional dependencies like some other systems do then this would really
>>not be an issue. A better way to handle this would be to fix RPM, or
>>    
>>
>
>It does know about this (don't quite remember the version it was introduced
>with but it allows for that now).
>
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>>simply to not mark them as dependencies at all yet still build the
>>package with those features enabled. If the supporting libraries are
>>    
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>
>This is just wrong packaging. Sorry if this sounds harsh but that cannot be the
>solution and it never will be in Fedora Extras.
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>>missing the features will be disabled at runtime usually with a message on
>>stderr.
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>
>Don't get me wrong... I am really happy that in the near future (1-2 years)
>rpm and yum support for optional dependencies will be spread enough so it
>solves a lot of issues like this one and I am really happy to make use
>of it... but for now this is not an option, sadly...
>
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>>The problem here is exactly the same as with Debian. This approach is
>>just broken and should not be used. What if the user does not know about
>>    
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>Hm maybe it is... but then I am no wine crack... splitting stuff up is
>something you do in packaging and what really is encouraged by distributions.
>Splitting stuff makes users happy and I can see why... ;) Looking over to
>debian and thinking about the stuff that is installed by 'make install' got me
>to the layout I have now... I don't say its perfect... it never was and it
>probably never will be... that is why I like input from upstream... I am the
>packager not the guy who did all the work on wine but I am the packager and I
>know what is needed/wanted/regulated on the fedora side of the story. Together
>with your input I am more than happy to change things around, just need people
>upstream who are willing to listen and talk to packagers and I hope in this
>case it will work. On thing I could offer which probably makes sense anyway is
>to mention sub packages in the description or in a README-Fedora.
>
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>>wine-tools and does not install it? They will be missing:
>>
>> * winecmd
>> * notepad
>> * winedbg
>> * winepath
>> * winhelp
>> * _EXPLORER_
>>
>>These may appear to to be optional but they are not.
>>
>>Explorer is needed for shell integration, HAL support and system tray
>>support. It is not an end user tool, it's a part of the Wine
>>infrastructure.
>>    
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>
>Ok, will move explorer to the main wine package.
>
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>>Winedbg is needed to produce useful crash data for developers. Notepad and
>>winecmd are sometimes used by installers which will *fail silently* if
>>they are missing. Winepath is used by various third party scripts. Winhelp
>>is used by apps for online help, obviously.
>>    
>>
>
>hm then maybe stuff should be merged to the main wine package for the stuff
>mentioned above... will look into it and if you have further input and
>suggestions rest assured that they are always welcome.
>
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>>Gah. This is just frustrating. The same mistakes are made over and over
>>and over again. And we are the ones who get to pick up the bugs. What was
>>wrong with the way Vincent did it?
>>    
>>
>
>Well for one thing: Direct them to me or https://bugzilla.redhat.com. I have
>no problem with that and I stand for what I do. Maybe just maybe try to see the
>packager/distro side of things and you will see that what Vincent did was great
>work and is for certain things but for what is modern packaging and very
>distribution specific to fedora or even fedora extras the way I did it is the
>way to go... not by my opinion but the opinion and rules of the fedora
>community... if you don't like it fine... ignore it, ignore me... but I'd
>rather work together with you and the wine team on improving the wine
>experience for users and not fighting here wasting time that could be better
>spent improving the user situation.
>
>- Andreas
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Well I found it frustrating the way it is packaged. I just deleted all 
the FC5 wine stuff and
downloaded it from winehq. It is a shame you don't get the all the 
things you need without
having to install 10 packages.

My $.02,
Steve Clark

-- 

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