May be a bad idea to have Winetools in the next SUSE release

Rich Gilson signman359 at
Thu Mar 9 18:22:25 CST 2006

On Thursday 09 March 2006 08:27, Joachim von Thadden wrote:
> Am Thu, Mar 09, 2006 at 01:41:06PM +0100 schrieb Jan Zerebecki:
> > I think a quote from somewhat
> > sums up the cencus on this list regarding Winetools: "WineTools
> > [is] only recommended if installation or operability of Windows
> > software failed on pure Wine. Since WineTools radically alters
> > your Wine configuration please do not report bugs in programs
> > with WineTools installed. Instead contact the author of WineTools
> > Joachim von Thadden."
> As there are arguments floating around about WineTools that are
> definitely not correct I think I have to make some things here clear.
> > Some other facts:
> >
> > Winetools is only sporadically updated for new versions of Wine
> > (as indicates; this
> > site also contains some warnings regarding the support status).
> WineTools is not "sporadically" updated as it makes no sense to update
> it  with every new Wine release. The purpose is not to keep track Wine,
> the purpose is to have a stable basis. As such WineTools often stays
> with a specific Wine version for a time. This is the same what
> Crossover-Office does. So you would also not include that if you were
> allowed to?
The reality that I have come up with is this:
Even following the instructions provided in the appdb to install IE6 (which is 
necessary for almost anything else to work properly) I can't seem to get it 
to install properly.  When I run an install through Winetools, it works 
flawlessly.  When I try to install TurboTax under "pure" Wine, it fails 
miserably without having to do dll overrides and such.  When I install it 
under Winetools, I have no problems getting it to run without having to tweak 
the hell out of it.
> > Winetools radically alters some vital Wine settings and thus
> > makes many other apps fail.
> This first part is true, the second definitely not. WineTools is at the
> moment the only way to have all major commercial windows programs run
> simultaneously with Wine under Linux if you do not want to pay for
> Crossover-Office.
> If what you say is true then name the apps that fail with WineTools and
> run with *plain* Wine. I am waiting for your list. And I will include
> them in the next release (if I can download them legaly).
> > This leads to many users asking for help in #winehq on freenode.
> > But nobody there wants to support winetools and thus can only
> > suggest them to remove their .wine and redo it without winetools
> > (which usually makes it work).
> Yes, this is true. As we are a freetime project we have not the time to
> sit on an IRC channel. But there is always
> a) this mailinglist where we sit and listen
> b) the possibility to mail us directly
> Again: I am nosy to know which apps work after removing a WineTools
> .wine.
> > Currently no Winetools developer works closely with the Wine
> > developers to correct problems of interaction between Winetools
> > and Wine.
> What does that mean? We are making a tool to make Windows programs run
> with Wine. We do not develop Wine and our main goal is not to achieve as
> much debugging informations as possible. The goal is to make the usage
> of Wine as easy as possible for users coming from Windows and who are
> customized to point and click interfaces. Again: The goal is not to
> develop Wine. The goal is to use it easy.
> Regards
> 	Joachim von Thadden

Please don't misunderstand me, I have a great deal of respect for what what 
the Wine developers have accomplished so far; however, I feel that those that 
have put the effort into Winetools have done so because they saw a need and 
filled it.  In the realm of ease of use and user-friendliness, Wine is 
horribly lacking.  Yes, it is getting better, but I think that Winetools is 
the closest thing I've seen that would make it so that an average user could 
us it.

IMHO, the Wine developers should spend less time b*tching about Winetools and 
more time figuring out how they can 1) build a front-end that is better than 
Winetools, or 2) help improve Winetools so that it works more to their liking 
but still offers an easy, user-friendly interface.

Personally, I would like to see an application (be it Winetools or something 
else, it doesn't really matter to me) that would interface with the appdb.  
You could launch this front-end and it would pull up a list of all the 
applications in the appdb that have special "config" files.  These files 
would tell this front-end EXACTLY what dll overrides are necessary, what 
files to run, what needs to be installed beforehand, etc.  Then, if there is 
ever a change (due to Wine improving support for a particular dll so that an 
override is no longer needed, for example) all that would have to be done is 
to update the "config" file attached to the program in the appdb and *bingo*, 
you've just "update" your front-end!

I say I would like to see it because I do not personally have the requisite 
programming skill to accomplish such a task, but I'm convinced it could be 
done and that there are programmers out there in the Wine community that 
would easily be able to accomplish such a task.

This whole Wine/Winetools argument has been a thorn in my side for a while 
because I see both sides of the argument and can understand both stances.  
However, I'm also watching and not seeing any compromise being made.  It's 
like both sides have formed ranks and dug in.

It's not my intention to just whine and cry about things, but I'm not in a 
position to directly help.  What I can do is offer my ideas and opinions.  I 
have I haven't pissed too many people off because that was not my intention.  

I do look forward to every new release of Wine that comes out, hoping that 
it's that much closer to allowing me to leave Windows behind for good.
-- In a world without fences, who needs Gates?
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