why is Kronenberg's Wine/Mac work blacklisted on winehq?
thunderbird2k at gmail.com
Fri Jun 26 05:00:36 CDT 2009
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Austin English<austinenglish at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:56 AM, <Joerg-Cyril.Hoehle at t-systems.com> wrote:
>> Yesterday I edited http://wiki.winehq.org/MacOSX/FAQs to be much less outdated than before and today I found that Dmitry Timoshkov removed all references to Mike Kronenberg's Wine binary distribution at http://www.kronenberg.org/darwine/
>> This is unappropriate censorship to me.
>> Am I upset? It costs me precious time to write code and
>> documentation, so I dislike it when it gets deleted for
>> uncomprehensible reasons. Censorship may be too strong a word.
>> The only gripes I understand about Kronenberg's work are:
>> - Although he agreed to change the name from Darwin to Wine in May, he has not yet done so. Cf. http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2009-May/075775.html
>> - Similarly, the license is still GPL, while Wine switched to LGPL long ago.
>> Other than that, his work seems solid and provides for a great user experience:
>> + It's built with Xcode 2.5, so it does not suffer from bug #14920
>> So 16bit applications work.
>> + It provides a WineHelper GUI applications that supposedly makes it
>> easy to start applications by clicking on icons.
>> I never used it and am still researching the equivalent of
>> xyz.desktop files from Linux.
>> winemenubuilder does not work on MacOS so far.
>> + It contains a newer FreeType library than Apple's which I've read is buggy.
>> I can confirm that e.g. his winecfg "About" page looks as crisp as
>> on Linux, whereas my build using only Apple resources shows ugly 'W'
>> and kerning: in "Bibliothek", there should be one pixel horizontal
>> space between letters, never 2. On Linux all lines are exactly one
>> pixel wide, crisp as if hand-drawn.
>> HKCU\FontSmoothing does not help, as the ugly 'W' just gets shades
>> of grey.
>> Perhaps the only difference is Tahoma.ttf (the 'f' looks different),
>> i.e. font files rather than FreeType, but so far I did not further
>> investigate this issue.
>> + He's been providing a binary distribution for a long time. Linux
>> experience shows that most people tend to download binaries rather than
>> build themselves from source. Users of gentoo are sometimes
>> considered exotic for that reason. OTOH on Mac, this seems normal, as
>> neither Fink nor MacPorts provide online binary repositories. Strange.
>> + I looked into his build script.
>> It is basically ./configure & make as far as Wine is concerned.
>> I can start /Volumes/Darwine/Contents.../bin/wine foo.exe like on Linux.
>> Beside that, it builds WineHelper, FreeType and lots of other open
>> source libraries.
>> All but one of the 3-4 patches therein are obsolete (already in Wine
>> git or perhaps only needed on Tiger). There's a single patch not in
>> Wine: XGravity event handling. Hopefully Mike can comment on it.
>> Presumably it should get into Wine as well.
>> So to me his binary appears like a pretty normal Wine build. This is
>> not Cedega. I am about to submit a bug report to Wine bugzilla about
>> MIDI audio based on his binary; I see no reason to dismiss it. Sadly
>> I cannot produce the bug compiling myself, because of the above
>> all-16bit-apps-crash bug with the Xcode3.x that I own.
> The lingering problem is that those extra features make it different
> from 'vanilla' wine. While most of the patches in there are obsolete,
> they're still in the source and still applied. The build source isn't
> current, some of the package downloads are busted (not really a reason
> to 'block it' though).
> In that discussion you've already referenced, most of this is already mentioned.
> If there were a plain vanilla wine built on OS X, I think more
> developers would be receptive to it. Unfortunately, most developers
> don't have access to Mac's, and/or aren't focused on packaging/etc.,
> but on more practical coding (fixing bugs, adding features, etc.).
I would be willing to assist with any Mac issues as I would need a
LGPL'ed version of Wine on OSX myself. I'm assisting bringing a
university program to Linux/Mac using Wine and for that I need decent
Mac support. Darwine set some steps in the right direction and we
could help making it a better experience. I do agree that the license
/ name issues should be solved.
I'm also interested in a way to create application bundles of Wine +
win32 app for Mac and plan to work on that. Perhaps others are
interested as well.
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