[Wine]WinNY and Wine (Off topic: KDE and root)

Isaac Rabicoff irabicoff at kc.rr.com
Thu Jul 14 16:34:56 CDT 2005


Tom and Shadi, I really appreciate your willingness to help me in spite
of my inexperience with Linux.  You have helped me expand my fundamental
understanding of linux.

Tom: I received a very large output of files from using the find command
you suggested.  All directories were hidden, in the format
"./dirname/filename" or often "./dirname/.filename".  There are so many
files, I'm sure it would save time by adding full directories with chown
with -R.  However, I'm not exactly sure which directories I would need
to add.  The ./sys directory has subdirectories such as /java, which
would probably be a dependency for some of my programs such as firefox,
but would it be safe to add the entire ./sys folder?  This might have
been unnecessary, but I emailed you my full output of restricted files
(1.8 mb compressed, 10.3 mb uncompressed) in case this might help you
understand my problem.

Thanks,
Isaac

Tom Cavin wrote:cavin at MIT.EDU

>Hi Isaac,
>
>As Shadi suggested, you can probably work around the KDE startup problem by
>logging in as root and then doing su (or sudo) to change to another user to
>run Wine.
>
>That will most likely get you up and running, and is worth trying in order
>to test things, but it is still a significant security risk, and if you
>want to run your system any length of time, you probably want to fix this.
>
>KDE does not need to be superuser to run, and if you are having permission
>problems, there is probably a glitch in your installation.  I haven't
>messed with KDE for a long time, but it probably has log files somewhere
>that might give you a clue as to what is going on.
>
>My first suspicion is that if you have been doing as you said and logging
>in as a normal user and then doing an "su" before starting X, KDE, or Wine,
>you may have root-owned files in your home directory.  (If you do "su", you
>end up with a root process in the current directory.  If instead you use
>the flag to login "su -" you end up with a root shell in root's home
>directory.)  Assuming you did "su", the home directory didn't change and
>you probably have root owned log files or stuff that KDE can't open unless
>you run it as root and which are just where KDE wants to put the normal
>user log files.
>
>In general, nothing under your normal user home directory should be owned
>by any other user.  You can use the find command to look for offending
>files like this:  (assuming your normal username is "irabicoff".)
>
>  $ cd ~irabicoff
>  $ find . \! -user irabicoff -print | xargs ls -ld
>
>This will traverse your entire home directory and provide a long listing of
>all the files and directory nodes that are not owned by the irabicoff
>account.
>
>Unless there is something very peculiar going on, you should be able to do
>a "chown irabicoff FILE" to fix this.  (You may have to also use a "chgrp"
>command if the group ownerships aren't correct.)  I don't recommend using
>the "-R" flag until you have a sense of what it will change.
>
>Note: this is a repair operation, and you will need to be superuser in
>order to do the chown/chgrp commands.  You should not need to be superuser
>to look for the problem files, and the least privileges principle would
>suggest you use "sudo" instead of "su" for the changes.  Specifically,
>instead of using "su" to get a root shell, you can as a normal user do
>"sudo chown irabicoff FILE" and only have root authority for the one
>command.  (You may need to install or configure sudo if it isn't standard
>in your distribution.)
>
>If the KDE hang was caused by a permission problem on the user log file,
>this should fix it.
>
>If the KDE hang is caused by something else, you should be able to look at
>the KDE log file to find out more details.
>
>Best Wishes,
>
>     --Tom
>
>Isaac Rabicoff writes:
> > Tom,
> > 
> > I truly appreciate your comprehensive explanation, only a fraction of
> > which I was already aware.  I have been convinced to not use superuser
> > to login.  However, when I started up kde as a user (after adding the
> > 'echo "exec startkde" > ~/.xinitrc' command), it just hanged on the
> > splash screen as it was trying to load peripherals.  I believe this is
> > because I'm unable to access everything that I installed as root, and
> > I'm not sure how I would gain access to this.
> > 
> > I realize this isn't directly a wine-related problem, but it will be
> > necessary for me to overcome this before I can attempt to run wine
> > without logging in as root.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Isaac (I'll stick with my real name ;) )
> > 
> > Tom Cavin wrote:
> > 
> > >Hi Ray (aka Isaac),
> > >
> > >The only programs you should ever run as superuser are those that were
> > >designed to be run by superuser and then only under the conditions for
> > >which the program was designed.  And even that is questionable practice.
> > >
> > >As a general rule, if a user ever has to do anything as root, something is
> > >wrong.
> > >
> > >Yes, this is a "security precaution", but your use of the word "only"
> > >indicates to me that you might have a limited view of security.
> > >
> > >It isn't just Wine that you shouldn't run as root or superuser, it's any
> > >program.  On any Unix or Linux computer system, a process running with root
> > >(uid=0), (or in MS-Windows a process running with administrator
> > >privileges) has unquestioned authority to change the system.
> > >
> > >Execution privileges directly affect program functionality, and giving a
> > >program too many privileges means you may be giving it more than it was
> > >designed for.
> > >
> > >The operating system doesn't care if the command to format the system disk
> > >came from a command line of a logged in sys-admin who is wiping the disk
> > >before disposal, or from an email virus automatically executed by Outlook
> > >Express.  If the process issuing the format command has sufficient
> > >privileges to wipe the disk ... it's history.
> > >
> > >That's an extreme example, but there are many lesser issues that can cause
> > >more subtle damage.  Programs that are designed to be run by
> > >non-privileged users may normally probe parts of the file system in order
> > >to find a place to store temporary files.  This probe can be as simple as
> > >checking for read permissions, and a failed check causes the program to
> > >look elsewhere for temporary file space.  A user program may try to store
> > >information in the current directory, and if it can't write there it will
> > >switch to a user's home directory.  If you run such a program as superuser,
> > >the permissions check always succeeds, so you may end up writing files
> > >anywhere on your system.
> > >
> > >in the case of Wine, this is a particularly serious issue.  Wine is
> > >designed to run programs that were written for a different OS.  Regardless
> > >of anyone's opinion of the innate reliability of such code, running _any_
> > >program in Wine is running it in a foreign environment that has different
> > >rules than the program expects.
> > >
> > >As an analogy, consider average drivers in their home country.  They
> > >generally follow the rules of the road and know which side of the road to
> > >drive on.  If you take those drivers to another country where the rules are
> > >different, but you keep them on a restricted test track with no other
> > >drivers, things can work reasonably well.  If you put those same drivers in
> > >police cars with the sirens on and the lights flashing, in the middle of a
> > >densely populated foreign city where they don't know the language or the
> > >rules of the road, you are likely to have problems.  If you replace those
> > >foreign human drivers with robots hard-coded to drive on the "wrong" side
> > >of the street, the odds get even worse.
> > >
> > >In my mind, that analogy is very close to what you do when you run Wine as
> > >superuser.
> > >
> > >There is one difference though.  If you do this on your own machine you are
> > >only likely to hurt yourself.  It might be interesting to see what happens,
> > >and it could even be a good learning experience.
> > >
> > >But please don't do this on any system you (or anyone else) depends on.
> > >
> > >Best Wishes,
> > >
> > >     --Tom
> > >
> > >Isaac Rabicoff writes:
> > > > Usurp,
> > > > 
> > > > I appreciate your response.  If possible, however, I would like for you to
> > > > go into greater detail as to why I shouldn't run wine as root.  Actually, I
> > > > always login as a user, then upgrade to super user (I realize this is
> > > > effectively the same as root).  To my understanding, not running programs as
> > > > root is only a security precaution and shouldn't affect program
> > > > functionality.  Am I wrong?
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > - Ray (aka Isaac)
> > > > 
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "Sylvain Petreolle" <spetreolle at yahoo.fr>
> > > > To: <wine-users at winehq.org>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:10 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [Wine]WinNY and Wine
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > Rule #1: dont run wine as root.
> > > > > --- Isaac Rabicoff <irabicoff at kc.rr.com> a écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello everyone,BokuNoSekai / # ls -a  /home/raymondbeautrix
>.              .bashrc                  .ICEauthority  .Xauthority
>..             ._cfg0000_.bash_profile  .kde           .xsession-errors
>.bash_history  ._cfg0000_.bashrc        .kde3.4
>.bash_logout   .dmrc                    .mcop
>.bash_profile  .fonts.cache-1           .qt
>BokuNoSekai / # find . \! -user irabicoff -print | xargs ls -ld
>find: invalid argument `irabicoff' to `-user'
>drwxr-xr-x  20 root root 680 Jul  3 10:33 .
>BokuNoSekai / # ls -a /root
>                            .gtk-bookmarks      .recently-used
>.                           .gxine              registry
>..                          .gxmame             .scim
>.advance                    help                simulink
>.anthy                      .ICEauthority       stateflow
>.Azureus                    .icons              suja2524410itaskill.joy
>.bash_history               install_matlab      .superkaramba
>bin                         install_matlab.out  .sversionrc
>.ccache                     java                sys
>.dc++                       .kde                Themes
>.DCOPserver_BokuNoSekai__0  .kde3.4             .thumbnails
>.DCOPserver_BokuNoSekai_:0  .kderc              .thunderbird
>demos                       .keep               toolbox
>Desktop                     license.txt         update
>etc                         linuxdcpp           .ut2003
>extern                      .local              .VERSION
>Firefox_wallpaper.png       .lopster            .wine
>.fonts.cache-1              .mailcap            X11
>.fonts.conf                 .matlab             .Xauthority
>.fullcircle                 .mcop               .xcompmgrrc
>.gconf                      .mcoprc             .xine
>.gconfd                     .mime.types         .xinitrc
>.gimp-2.2                   .mozilla            .xmame
>.gnome                      .mplayer            .xmms
>.gnome2                     .openoffice         .xsession-errors
>.gnome2_private             .opera              .xsmWoQXsx
>.gnome_private              .q3a                .xwine
>.gnupg                      .qt
>BokuNoSekai / #
>
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I'm trying to figure out how to run Winny2b71 with wine-20050111-r1
> > > > > > on 2005.0 Gentoo Linux with kernel 2.6.11 r11 (I thought the version
> > > > > > info might be helpful). The result is nothing-- no error message,
> > > > > > nothing loads, nothing flashes. I have the program installed in
> > > > > > /root/.wine/Apps/Winny2, and I use the appropriate ' wine "[path]" '
> > > > > > command to execute the program.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Usurp (aka Sylvain Petreolle)
> > > > >
> > > > > humans are like computers,
> > > > > yesterday the BIOS was all
> > > > > - today its just a word
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > wine-users mailing list
> > > > > wine-users at winehq.org
> > > > > http://www.winehq.org/mailman/listinfo/wine-users
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > wine-users mailing list
> > > > wine-users at winehq.org
> > > > http://www.winehq.org/mailman/listinfo/wine-users
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >wine-users mailing list
> > >wine-users at winehq.org
> > >http://www.winehq.org/mailman/listinfo/wine-users
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > 
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> > wine-users at winehq.org
> > http://www.winehq.org/mailman/listinfo/wine-users
>
>  
>




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