Are we the reason Apple isn't helping us?

Ben Klein shacklein at
Sun Mar 11 17:33:46 CDT 2012

On 12 March 2012 09:01, Vitaliy Margolen <wine-devel at> wrote:
> On 03/11/2012 03:10 PM, Charles Davis wrote:
>> Sorry about the really long email, but I didn't want to flood your
>> inboxes with 5 separate responses.
>> On Mar 11, 2012, at 12:15 AM, Jerome Leclanche wrote:
>>> There are a thousand bugs where I would agree with you, but Jeremy's
>>> second post was "I don't plan on submitting patches to you frequently
>>> enough to make it worth my time to read your policies and subscribe to
>>> your lists.". That's not "trying to help", it's self-entitled
>>> behaviour.
>> True. But my original point--that Vitaliy was unnecessarily rude to our
>> guest--stands.
> You mean showing person the door when that person clearly demonstrated he
> does not, will not, and doesn't even have a desire to play by our rules?
> Every single time this ends up being a waste of time for everyone involved.
> And this is yet another proof of that.

I have to agree with Vitaliy on this. Mr Huddleston was incredibly
rude and arrogant, not to mention lazy. Direct examples:
JH: "Please apply this patch."
JH: "[it is not] worth my time to read your policies"
JH: "I won't be submitting patches to you, but this is still a bug"
AJ: "Then file a proper bug, showing the exact error and the exact
compiler and OS version you are using."
JH: "I can't do that."
AJ: "Nothing to fix then. File a new bug if/when this happens in a
public version."
JH: "It is still a valid concern, so reopening.  You still have conflicts."
AJ: "No we don't, the code builds just fine on Mac."
JH: "I suggest you join the ADC and try building wine on the latest
development versions available."

Yeah, Vitaliy is perfectly justified in saying JH is wasting our time
and doesn't deserve a bugzilla account.

As an aside: JH's bug is only triggered by mixing ObjC code with Wine,
presumably by using an ObjC compiler. He admits the current (and
correct) solution is "shipping ... it in MacPorts to protect our
users". Reading between the lines, does this mean Apple will be
shipping Wine with the next MacOSX version?

Also: his patch is, in my opinion, a mess of unreadable nonsense ...
but it looks like that's just how Mac support has to be done.

>> Jeremy: Here's a problem, and a patch to fix it. Wine developers: Follow
>> the rules or you'll get no sympathy. Jeremy: I don't have time for that!
>> Wine developers:We don't see any problem. Tell us more. Jeremy: I can't.
>> Vitaliy: Then we can't take your patch, even if it is right. Jeremy:
>> You'll have to take my patch on faith. Vitaliy: Go to hell! Screw you!
>> I'm banning you! Jeremy: Screw you, too! I'm outta here!
> You better re-read the entire bug report again. What you said is offensive
> towards me and I request your apology!
> The topic is over, at least for me. You are behaving exactly the same way
> Jeremy did disregarding everyone and everything because _you_ perceive
> something differently then everyone else here. And making conclusions
> without reading the entire conversation or being familiar enough with
> bugzilla.
> Vitaliy.

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